Small Funded(Live-Sim) Account Journal

[Laissez Faire]

I think that realistically to have a chance with these firms you should go for a fairly large account and trade it with very small size. If not, you simply have to be a top performer 100 % of the time with no room to fail. The margin just isn't there.

You mention having a main account. If so, I don't get why you bother with these firms. Just compound (slowly) your real account.

 

[Laissez Faire]

1K account. 0.5K margin per MES. 3 points net per day. You start out trading 2 contracts. On day 18 you can start trading 3 micros. On day 29 you can trade 5 micros. Progress is slow initially, but eventually it snowballs until you own the world...

 

[Concinnity]

I think that realistically to have a chance with these firms you should go for a fairly large account and trade it with very small size. If not, you simply have to be a top performer 100 % of the time with no room to fail. The margin just isn't there.

You mention having a main account. If so, I don't get why you bother with these firms. Just compound (slowly) your real account.

My main account is also a funded account. I don't think it's correct you have to be a top performer, if you're trading micro's a $1100 daily loss is equivalent to $11000 for a mini. If that isn't enough drawdown to trade intra-day than I don't understand your point?

If that isn't enough than what would you need a 200k account so you can put positions on, hold for a long time, average into it and than catch the rebound? There's nothing wrong with that particularly if done with reasoning and probability. But for me personally I don't have that kind of money yet, plus I find the drawdown reasonable.

Again just my personal experience and opinion.

 

[Bugsy]

Fair enough, but people way over state the issue about their rules or etc, because they can't trade.

It's in fact the opposite. You will not find a single professional and profitable trader that does not have their own system with it's own rules. In fact, it's the people who cannot trade and are unprofitable that do not have rules.

 

[Concinnity]

I don't think you will find a single professional and profitable trader that does not have their own system with it's own rules. In fact, it's the people who cannot trade and are unprofitable that do not have rules.

Man... I am sorry if I am not being clear here. I have a system with clearly defined mathematical perimeters(this is how I am building bots).

I am saying there is no restriction on their rules, that I find over bearing that is preventing me from being successful. Furthermore I am saying all the talk about all the restrictions these companies put on you is largely from people who cannot trade, do not have an edge or are annoyed they can't pass them.

 

[Bugsy]

Man... I am sorry if I am not being clear here. I have a system with clearly defined mathematical perimeters(this is how I am building bots).

I am saying there is no restriction on their rules, that I find over bearing that is preventing me from being successful. Furthermore I am saying all the talk about all the restrictions these companies put on you is largely from people who cannot trade, do not have an edge or are annoyed they can't pass them.

Ahhh ok I misconstrued. I thought you were essentially saying that people who are rigid with rules usually cannot trade profitably. I understand what you mean now.

 

[Laissez Faire]

If that isn't enough drawdown to trade intra-day than I don't understand your point?

Well, isn't that precisely what I said? In order to have a chance, you need to stay small. If that's a micro or a full e-mini depends on the account size and drawdown limits.

However, considering that you have to stay small and trade micros it does seem to me to defeat the whole purpose of being "funded". Better to stake a small account and trade micros with your own money.

 

[Concinnity]

Well, isn't that precisely what I said? In order to have a chance, you need to stay small. If that's a micro or a full e-mini depends on the account size and drawdown limits.

However, considering that you have to stay small and trade micros it does seem to me to defeat the whole purpose of being "funded". Better to stake a small account and trade micros with your own money.

Some companies use a trailing live drawdown. Now these companies do not have very liberal withdrawal policies at the start(you need to trade for a month or a little over sometimes). However, there is no daily loss limit once you're above the trailing live draw down. So right there that blows your argument up, as once you have more profit you're free to scale up. Do you see what I am saying? People don't do there research and just repeat things.

Other companies have very liberal withdraw policies, you can withdraw from day one. However, they will never remove your daily drawdown limit. With these companies you are correct, if you want to scale what you said is 100% correct.

 

[Laissez Faire]

I’m not repeating anything. I know fully how these firms work and will not waste any more time debating the issue.

There is no scaling or funding as you always risk your own accumulated profits. The reason they have time limitations on withdrawals is simply because they hope you’ll fail by then.

Add to that the fact that you’re trading in simulator generering simulator profits. Giving the firm no incentive to actually want to pay you as it’s money out of their pockets.

 

[Concinnity]

I’m not repeating anything. I know fully how these firms work and will not waste any more time debating the issue.

There is no scaling or funding as you always risk your own accumulated profits. The reason they have time limitations on withdrawals is simply because they hope you’ll fail by then.

Add to that the fact that you’re trading in simulator generering simulator profits. Giving the firm no incentive to actually want to pay you as it’s money out of their pockets.

Yeah, you're pretty much correct on everything you're saying there is no debate on the facts. I understand that and we agree, you're the one that (potentially) doesn't.

It's just a matter of perspective. So the fact that you're always funding yourself... ok that is true... it doesn't stop me from scaling up like you said. with certain companies. If I start my own account am I not also risking my own accumulated profits if I want to scale? I care about the end result, you seem to be upset that they aren't actually funding you. Of course they aren't they make money off of people failing, again we agree.

Also, they do pay out. Not only do they pay me, but I know people who have taken rather large withdrawals (over 18k) from some of the companies. Today my debacle with internet and platform cost me $23 (and of course my time invested). If this was an actual live account with my money I could of lost easily a grand.

Not trying to be a smart ass, but I take it you tried these companies and failed to stay funded right? normally I wouldn't ask this, but you're coming at me fairly hard and now just backing away saying it's not up for debate. That's a cheap tactic to be frank, considering we agree on all the facts and we understand what the companies are about.

I don't care personally as long as that pay me out. It's that simple for me.