Smacking the ER2

Hi Dan,

I'm afraid you've lost me with that one.....

I'm working on my discipline for following my entry and exit rules with a method I have a lot of confidence in.

Why would it be any better for me to develop a new method that has more straightforward rules just to complete the 20 trade exercise. The only reason why I’m doing this is that I think I have a good edge.

I would argue that my current trading flaws are fear based and therefore moving away from something that works for me would be three steps back.

I totally agree that the wheels are spinning big time at the moment …..… but all the issues are between my ears, and I have some time to get them right.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
Quote from e_trader_pro:

When you are trading for a few ticks, commissions do add up.

You might want to check out WR2 (Russell 2000 on Eurex) and WR1 (Russell 1000 on Eurex, instead of RUI, the Russell 1000 on Globex).

If the price is there, which is often the case (and sometimes even better), you get to keep the difference in exchange fees.

IB breaks out the exchange fees and passes it thru exactly as it is.

Russell on CME/Globex costs $2.28 a round turn.
Russell on Eurex costs only $1.00 a round turn.

That $1.28 can add up to thousands over the course of the year.

If you trade enough, a membership on Eurex US costs nothing, but reduces your Russell round turns to 10 cents! Then you save $2.18 per round turn.

dont you have to sit an exam to get a eurex seat? major ball ache but worth it if youre a high volume trader.

what is the liquidity like on eurex russell products these days?
 
Quote from Dman:

Quote from e_trader_pro:

When you are trading for a few ticks, commissions do add up.

You might want to check out WR2



WR2 is too thin and you will pay more in slippage and missed fills than the extra commission of ER2. I use WR2 for positions as the margin is very favorable (1600 vs. 2700) but you always give up the edge on execution. I would like to see WR2 become a viable market but until they get upwards of 10k cars/day it is not suitable for daytrading imo.

guess this answers my question!!
 
Quote from rokafella:

if you can't automate your "secret weapons" then you're toast. good discretionary traders are rare. good discretionary daytraders don't really exist. they are a myth. brokers keep pushing the technology envelope in hopes of gettting your cash via commissions. automate or burn in the flames.
revisit you psych books because it is apparent to me you forgot everything.

i did not bother to read every single post
so maybe all of this has been mentioned. if it has then maybe reading it again will make a difference.

aside from that i think you're a joke if you think that you can be a successful discretionary trader.
harsh but true.


BULL SHIT!!

most of the market wizards are discretionary.

paul rotter is discretionary

george soros is so discretionary, he even goes by the pain in his back!!

sorry - but you are just sooooo wrong on this.
 
Quote from Dantheman:

you can't follow your rules because you have no discipline.

(i'm not making a judgement about your rules here, nor am i making a suggestion as to whether or not you should strive to be a pure mechanical or pure discretionary trader)...

what i will say is this...

you know that you need to do that 20 trade exercise in douglas' book in order for you to KNOW that you can trust yourself to execute your plan correct?

well then, if the goal RIGHT NOW is to be able to execute without fail, then that's what you must do.

how? simple. just define some very simple entry criteria on a 5 min chart of whatever product you like. come up with some simple trade management for that trade.
then execute.
forget all the secret this and secret that for a moment.
forget your current 'system' for now (i'm not saying scrap it).

focus on what you need right now...which is a consistent disciplined approach that you follow regardless of whether or not you make money during this time.

shoot i'm not saying anything different than what douglas suggests. right now you are meandering. you're in gear but you're just spinning your tires. you ain't getting anywhere!

i'm tired, so if anyone has any dissagreement in semantics with what i said, please save it. if there is dissagreement at a core level however, please use constructive (i.e. offer alternate semi-detailed views) criticism. thank you.

lol....

neat post.

the only thing id add to this is imo douglas doesnt mention that the end result of this exercise should be a profit (great if it is of course!). the purpose of the exercise imo is just to get a working belief in the 5 probabilities ethos.

this is why he states that you should be willing to put aside $xxxxxxx in case every trade is a loser.

in other words, the exercise could take 20 or 100 trades to complete - but it is not complete until you do have a working belief in the probabilities/true nature of the market.

i think this is an important factor when doing the exercise. from my own experience when I did it, i had a loss and assumed it was because my edge was non existent. the reality was that i wasn't being selective enough in deciding when my edge was there. in other words, my edge wasnt there on most of the trades!

this can create a lot of issues and psychological damage until we are aware of this.

the nub of what i am saying - and this has been very important in my own trading is as follows:

douglas talks of flawless execution and that we should execute our system flawlessly - ie take every VALID set up.

but this does not mean taking EVERY set up. each set up should, to be defined clearly and concisely, so as to leave no room for doubt if it is there or not. lets say there are 4 criteria here:

1/ clear long time frame signal
2/ clear short time frame signal
3/ volume confirmation
4/ sufficient liquidity

its no use taking the trade if only 1 or 2 of these criteria are met. all 4 MUST be met, and then and only then should that trade be taken. this is flawless execution. taking every trade that meets ALL of your criteria, not just 1 or 2 (like I used to do thinking I was trading flawlessly, telling my self 'you dont know what the market will do next' etc according to the 5 probabilities)

hth
 
Jessop,

The fact that you are still trading futures after eight or nine months in a very difficult market says you are doing something right. Looking at this from a long term point of view (years), alot of this emotional stuff is going to be much less of a problem with experience. Do you think the guy who has made 10,000 trades over the last 5 years has the same emotional intensity when he puts on the fourth trade of the morning compared to the guy who has 300 trades and six months under his belt?

If I were you I would commit to the first x number of signals, say 3-5. If you could consistently take the first 3 trades of the day I think this problem would go away.
 
Fred,

Thanks for that.

I agree, especially that the end of the trade exercise must be when there is a really ingrained belief in probabilities. The blackjack/casino analogy is the key element for me. The trouble is I’m not letting my edge play out. At the moment it’s like I keep getting dealt two Kings and ask for another card every time !!

However, even Douglas said that profit taking was the hardest part of the game and didn’t really have much more to say than scale out sensibly.

Interesting point you make on sufficient liquidity. All my signals include volume confirmation by their very definition, but I’ve never considered liquidity before.

Cheers
 
Dman,

Thanks for that.

I’m sure you are right….….I’ve noticed the difference in the last four months since I’ve been live.

In the first week of being live – I took 3 signals out of 40+ and when I was in the very brief trades I could hardly hold the mouse due to sweaty mitts, and I had to watch each and every tick movement on the screen. Any loss was a total downer and I generally stopped actively trading for the day.

These days I am happy to take a loss (only for valid signals – not my occasional gamble trades) and can walk away from the screen in a trade for 4-5 minutes. So emotional progress I guess.

Cheers
 
Quote from jessop:

These days I am happy to take a loss (only for valid signals – not my occasional gamble trades) and can walk away from the screen in a trade for 4-5 minutes.

Getting into the habit of walking away from the screen for 4 or 5
minutes could cost you some $$$ if your stop doesn't work (you do
use IB right?) and ER2 goes against your position fast on a breakout
of some type. I would never walk away from the screen. But then
again that's just me... :)
 
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