I had typed into my personal journal, and it wouldn't let me copy and paste that into here. so I just typed it in... that seemed to work.
SlaPa
- Thread starter Hooti
- Start date
I had typed into my personal journal, and it wouldn't let me copy and paste that into here. so I just typed it in... that seemed to work.
My other general take away from this last week due to a conversation with another trader about 'not losing'. Being able to scratch.
Warren Buffet made the comment once that the basic advice he would give traders is "don't lose money'!
I sat in on a video lecture from a high priced trade adviser. Her basic message was if you are losing money, or even have a losing trade, stop trading until you figure out exactly why. Don't give your money away.
Yet I started trading thinking losing was part of probability, and trading was probability. One of my friends now spends all his spare time at the casino and is a 'platinum gambler'. I talked to him last night. He talks about the principles he gambles by. OMG.
In contrast I know of course there are losing trades, but your loses can consistently be small relative to your wins. My routine deals with that. Probability is not the essential factor in what is happening. Behavior is: mine, and what is happening in the market as the charts show it.
In chat this week we talked about coming to a place where you realize and experience you don't have to lose. When you realize that, everything changes. I was trading tight before, and with tunnel vision. No matter what I did, ego... fear was on the line.
One unexpected thing was that when it finally soaked in deep enough that I didn't have to lose, not only did my fear change, my greed (or over confidence -- NOW I've got it!) changed also. You know those days when you catch the run and then that day or over the next few give it all back and maybe double?
I'm sure there are layers to the onion here for me, and ego will raise it's head often enough. But once you experience how it feels to trade without ego. I don't think I will forget that. NoDoji talked about logically figuring out that it was possible to have no losing days. It took awhile, but one day she just sat down and did it. Her comment was that it felt good at the end of that day. So she kept doing it. As I'm understanding it, the part that felt good was not having you ego on the line. Then you can be present and real with what is actually in front of you. Less or no tunnel vision. Everything is different.
How did I shift? I realized I wasn't doing what I logically knew to do. I could tell you how to trade with small losses, but I wasn't doing it. I realized I had to change a habit, which is always hard. IMO changing bad trading habits is harder than changing habits in other aspects of life. Just know that. The day I did it the room was cool but the back of my head was sweating. Not my arms, or body, my head. Damn.
I don't think I realized it felt good until sometime in the next week!
Thank you guys who have helped... the process still continues.
Warren Buffet made the comment once that the basic advice he would give traders is "don't lose money'!
I sat in on a video lecture from a high priced trade adviser. Her basic message was if you are losing money, or even have a losing trade, stop trading until you figure out exactly why. Don't give your money away.
Yet I started trading thinking losing was part of probability, and trading was probability. One of my friends now spends all his spare time at the casino and is a 'platinum gambler'. I talked to him last night. He talks about the principles he gambles by. OMG.
In contrast I know of course there are losing trades, but your loses can consistently be small relative to your wins. My routine deals with that. Probability is not the essential factor in what is happening. Behavior is: mine, and what is happening in the market as the charts show it.
In chat this week we talked about coming to a place where you realize and experience you don't have to lose. When you realize that, everything changes. I was trading tight before, and with tunnel vision. No matter what I did, ego... fear was on the line.
One unexpected thing was that when it finally soaked in deep enough that I didn't have to lose, not only did my fear change, my greed (or over confidence -- NOW I've got it!) changed also. You know those days when you catch the run and then that day or over the next few give it all back and maybe double?
I'm sure there are layers to the onion here for me, and ego will raise it's head often enough. But once you experience how it feels to trade without ego. I don't think I will forget that. NoDoji talked about logically figuring out that it was possible to have no losing days. It took awhile, but one day she just sat down and did it. Her comment was that it felt good at the end of that day. So she kept doing it. As I'm understanding it, the part that felt good was not having you ego on the line. Then you can be present and real with what is actually in front of you. Less or no tunnel vision. Everything is different.
How did I shift? I realized I wasn't doing what I logically knew to do. I could tell you how to trade with small losses, but I wasn't doing it. I realized I had to change a habit, which is always hard. IMO changing bad trading habits is harder than changing habits in other aspects of life. Just know that. The day I did it the room was cool but the back of my head was sweating. Not my arms, or body, my head. Damn.
I don't think I realized it felt good until sometime in the next week!
Thank you guys who have helped... the process still continues.
And yes, making 'no losing days' a part of one's mindset or even as a goal -- is self defeating.
__________________
One aspect of working out a plan &/or setting up a journal, is finding who you are.
I have sat for an hour each week in a siminar now for years. Primarily Elliot wave theory. But always 4 EMA's. Stochastics and divergences. Keltner channels. Other indicators and 'confluences' that might support EWT or stand on their own. And I've watched the teacher just nail it over and over. The teacher is very competent.
But there are just too many balls in the air for me. I have never been able to find confidence to trade size with this approach.
At the same time as I don't do well juggling so much, I need something moving pretty quickly or I lose interest. So a relatively simple approach with a 1 min chart keeps me engaged.
___________________________________
So how does one keep a journal without it becoming an end in itself?
How do I use it to actually not get more stuck (which I've done before), but instead to have insights and learn?
One suggestion is to not post live trades, but rather to record what you are thinking as you make choices trading. There are a limited number of stereotypical thoughts that fit the plan presented in the first posts of this thread.
For a homework assignment, I'll see if I can find ways to add those thoughts in and around the plan.
__________________
One aspect of working out a plan &/or setting up a journal, is finding who you are.
I have sat for an hour each week in a siminar now for years. Primarily Elliot wave theory. But always 4 EMA's. Stochastics and divergences. Keltner channels. Other indicators and 'confluences' that might support EWT or stand on their own. And I've watched the teacher just nail it over and over. The teacher is very competent.
But there are just too many balls in the air for me. I have never been able to find confidence to trade size with this approach.
At the same time as I don't do well juggling so much, I need something moving pretty quickly or I lose interest. So a relatively simple approach with a 1 min chart keeps me engaged.
___________________________________
So how does one keep a journal without it becoming an end in itself?
How do I use it to actually not get more stuck (which I've done before), but instead to have insights and learn?
One suggestion is to not post live trades, but rather to record what you are thinking as you make choices trading. There are a limited number of stereotypical thoughts that fit the plan presented in the first posts of this thread.
For a homework assignment, I'll see if I can find ways to add those thoughts in and around the plan.
The journal can also be used to plan for the coming session as well as to review the session afterward.
Oh yes.
And the essential of a journal being understanding what you are thinking when you trade. What was I thinking when I got in, or out?
I'm kind of backing up still. Thinking of the frustrated ones I've talked to and remembering when I was there more so than now.
Also, what you are offering Db, is a luxury as well as a delight. You may not always be here, so I want to build in a foundation. Reinvent this wheel and see how I might come out near the same place, while you are here to talk to.
___________________
My homework assignment turned out to be harder than I thought. It seemed straight forward when I started... just come up with all those concepts we use so often we abbreviate them, especially for 50% and AMT to round out my initial diagrams of SLA.
But the more I thought about it, the more complex I made it. Caught myself and not going there. Simplicity. I will say that I noticed a lot of thoughts as we trade are about what doesn't happen. Al Brooks used to drive me nuts with his talk of failures of failures.
Having expectations, and then being conscious of 'if this expectation happens, then... but if not....' and watching for behaviors, clues...
When Db started posting here I used to wonder what was going thru his mind as he traded.
It's becoming clearer. And I am processing to make it mine.
My 'homework assignment' was to put that more simply and directly into my plan.
Trading well is a particular way of paying attention. [and what you choose to ignore is every bit as important]
...once I nail some of these things down, I do not intend to talk much.
...or perhaps to just talk in those abbreviations, if at all.
I could skip all this talk and just do it, which in many ways would be easier. The journey tho is part of the fun.
Monday, presidents day.
We are near the long term upper trend lines. Not there, so we may reach them.
[Note: My platform doesn't let me make the upper channel line and lower channel line different colors, so I added in a shaded 99% and 1%... ]
There are areas of interest below. If it does reverse near the top, it could be messy, so be on guard. If it BO up. Wow.
We are near the long term upper trend lines. Not there, so we may reach them.
[Note: My platform doesn't let me make the upper channel line and lower channel line different colors, so I added in a shaded 99% and 1%... ]
There are areas of interest below. If it does reverse near the top, it could be messy, so be on guard. If it BO up. Wow.
Attachments
And here is a 1min chart, same main lines and channels as yesterday, updated for the ON. Took a long pre-open via retrace off the bounce off the lower channel line. Exited at the mean.
For the open...
while we are having lower highs, that long term upper channel line is still there. Might be an itch that needs scratching.
Who is in charge? Holiday weekend might be why it is sideways... have to wait and see.
Are we in or out of value? On the larger time interval we are possibly at an extreme. On the shorter term not so much.
possible S/R around 3640 if it drops.
For the open...
while we are having lower highs, that long term upper channel line is still there. Might be an itch that needs scratching.
Who is in charge? Holiday weekend might be why it is sideways... have to wait and see.
Are we in or out of value? On the larger time interval we are possibly at an extreme. On the shorter term not so much.
possible S/R around 3640 if it drops.
Attachments
I was a bit slow grasping that we were not having a trending day, but instead a ranging day. The shift from the sluggishness after the open to a zippy move down and then back up was enough to have me waiting and watching.
1. I took a long off the 50% retrace about 5 min after the open. Stayed in until it was sluggish. I exited when it broke a demand line 23 min after the open. Things were just not moving well, and my notes simply state that I expected a trend day up after HH and HL. But noticed sluggishness, then reversal. I did not take the first retrace short, I took the second.
In hindsight I altered the first DL that the open presented. Not altering the first DL would have allowed a channel to develop... and the first good retrace was when it broke out of that channel.
2. I exited the second trade, a short, when a SL was broken near 10:10 EST. After that I just watched. I jokingly thought it looked like a 'v' bottom and head and shoulders. Technically I could have taken that first retrace with the 'v' as a long, but I was just watching the speed with which it had dropped and then reversed. This near to the top long term channel line... that fast a drop gave me pause. My early planning gave a possibility of going up to 3680 to even 3690. So initially I was expecting a long. When the long was rejected, and fast move down... I might have looked for a long again, as indicated in the diagrams at the start of this journal. That is a wouldaShouldaCoulda. I thought of the long at the time, but passed due the speed of the drop down.
But sitting things out here may be OK, which crossed my mind before the open. If we are at a top, they can be rapid but often go sideways for some time.
This is technically what I did and thought. I'll have to ponder changes to my plan and preparation. I'm still not as clear as I'd like to be on how and what to notice.
1. I took a long off the 50% retrace about 5 min after the open. Stayed in until it was sluggish. I exited when it broke a demand line 23 min after the open. Things were just not moving well, and my notes simply state that I expected a trend day up after HH and HL. But noticed sluggishness, then reversal. I did not take the first retrace short, I took the second.
In hindsight I altered the first DL that the open presented. Not altering the first DL would have allowed a channel to develop... and the first good retrace was when it broke out of that channel.
2. I exited the second trade, a short, when a SL was broken near 10:10 EST. After that I just watched. I jokingly thought it looked like a 'v' bottom and head and shoulders. Technically I could have taken that first retrace with the 'v' as a long, but I was just watching the speed with which it had dropped and then reversed. This near to the top long term channel line... that fast a drop gave me pause. My early planning gave a possibility of going up to 3680 to even 3690. So initially I was expecting a long. When the long was rejected, and fast move down... I might have looked for a long again, as indicated in the diagrams at the start of this journal. That is a wouldaShouldaCoulda. I thought of the long at the time, but passed due the speed of the drop down.
But sitting things out here may be OK, which crossed my mind before the open. If we are at a top, they can be rapid but often go sideways for some time.
This is technically what I did and thought. I'll have to ponder changes to my plan and preparation. I'm still not as clear as I'd like to be on how and what to notice.
Attachments
Trust the process. JFDI.
What process? What 'it'?
Reviewed Gears journal, which is excellent. However, I am not writing out every technical move as he is doing (and he is doing more than just that). Hope I've internalized the technicals. Noticing them is part of the active/inactive balance so essential to trading.
Been here before a few months ago and I remember writing those down in detail, but not being able to ...use them. While I knew they were essential, at that time they were a waste of my time in a sense. They are like the 20% part. It's the 80% rest that seems to have several moving parts that appear very mysterious.
But now I can scratch pretty good (most of the time). That gives a freedom to pay attention to those mysterious moving parts.
Those moving parts have to do with my behaviors, some understanding of demand & supply, and the behaviors of those who have bought or sold. My behavior when I've bought or sold. Also what can be expected? What happens when the expected doesn't happen? And the 'why' questions as you watch the chart. Can I see both the forest and the trees? Also am I really learning and growing as a trader? Or going in circles? Is my plan simplifying and working better? A journal can help keep that process in place.
Until it is all internalized to the point it seems so obvious we can't even explain to someone what we are doing... which I think happens. Many parts become just like breathing. Thank goodness for teachers like Db who sorts this out for us.
What process? What 'it'?
Reviewed Gears journal, which is excellent. However, I am not writing out every technical move as he is doing (and he is doing more than just that). Hope I've internalized the technicals. Noticing them is part of the active/inactive balance so essential to trading.
Been here before a few months ago and I remember writing those down in detail, but not being able to ...use them. While I knew they were essential, at that time they were a waste of my time in a sense. They are like the 20% part. It's the 80% rest that seems to have several moving parts that appear very mysterious.
But now I can scratch pretty good (most of the time). That gives a freedom to pay attention to those mysterious moving parts.
Those moving parts have to do with my behaviors, some understanding of demand & supply, and the behaviors of those who have bought or sold. My behavior when I've bought or sold. Also what can be expected? What happens when the expected doesn't happen? And the 'why' questions as you watch the chart. Can I see both the forest and the trees? Also am I really learning and growing as a trader? Or going in circles? Is my plan simplifying and working better? A journal can help keep that process in place.
Until it is all internalized to the point it seems so obvious we can't even explain to someone what we are doing... which I think happens. Many parts become just like breathing. Thank goodness for teachers like Db who sorts this out for us.