SlaPa

[Hooti]

That's cool Db. Thanks.

One big issue for me in trading is paying attention. It's part of having focus issues, which I certainly have.

When I wrote in my plan to use SLA to 'surf' into trades, I traded worse. It sounds odd, but on reflection I was either trying to force SLA or I became to loose. Either way I was over trading.

I've been doing better but didn't know how to say why.

Then today I listened to other traders talking. I heard reflections of my own hopes fears and that particular hollow thunck of my head hitting against the trading wall. I realized how confused I have been at times trading. Just recently how off track I became just because of the way I described the surfing concept. So! Another mind game...

Perhaps... the market is made up of a lot of just-like-me very confused and randomly moving people. Yet there are predictable boundaries where these people tend to move in mass... but only up, down or sideways. I don't need to know which, and there is no way to predict that anyway. I just need to stay present and pay attention. Instead of trying to force things or becoming sloppy with SLA, it worked today for me to focus just by thinking of finessing the confusion and unpredictability of others, with SLA. Trading as a finesse thing in particular. What I was doing before was using force or just throwing SLA out there and trusting whatever. So for me finesse is a particular way of paying attention to unpredictability.

I hope I'm making sense in describing this, because my trading immediately improved, and I stayed with that perspective for about an hour. I want to come back to this place inside myself. This has virtually nothing to do with the technical part of trading. This has been a long term big issue in my trading, very difficult. So this has been a potentially huge day for me.

 

[boru]

That's cool Db. Thanks.

One big issue for me in trading is paying attention. It's part of having focus issues, which I certainly have.

When I wrote in my plan to use SLA to 'surf' into trades, I traded worse. It sounds odd, but on reflection I was either trying to force SLA or I became to loose. Either way I was over trading.

I've been doing better but didn't know how to say why.

Then today I listened to other traders talking. I heard reflections of my own hopes fears and that particular hollow thunck of my head hitting against the trading wall. I realized how confused I have been at times trading. Just recently how off track I became just because of the way I described the surfing concept. So! Another mind game...

Perhaps... the market is made up of a lot of just-like-me very confused and randomly moving people. Yet there are predictable boundaries where these people tend to move in mass... but only up, down or sideways. I don't need to know which, and there is no way to predict that anyway. I just need to stay present and pay attention. Instead of trying to force things or becoming sloppy with SLA, it worked today for me to focus just by thinking of finessing the confusion and unpredictability of others, with SLA. Trading as a finesse thing in particular. What I was doing before was using force or just throwing SLA out there and trusting whatever. So for me finesse is a particular way of paying attention to unpredictability.

I hope I'm making sense in describing this, because my trading immediately improved, and I stayed with that perspective for about an hour. I want to come back to this place inside myself. This has virtually nothing to do with the technical part of trading. This has been a long term big issue in my trading, very difficult. So this has been a potentially huge day for me.

Thank you for a good post Hooti, got my attention in a big way. I thought this past weekend I had turned a corner and reading this I realize I have a lot of work to do , more on myself than any other area. paying attention to the things I know work.

 

[Hooti]

I realize I have a lot of work to do , more on myself than any other area. paying attention to the things I know work.

Learning ways to pay attention is at the core of cognitive rehab, and cognitive rehab is arguably what Db is offering us as damaged traders.

So little of trading is dependent on logic. For example, in posts #2 & 3 a very logical and simple SLA thing is laid out. Yet when I press the button for an entry or exit is based maybe 20% that logic... it's 80% my attitude and perceptions.
Am I in fear? I hit the button at a different time than if not.
Greed? Different again.
Thinking of conserving capitol?
Confident and relaxed.
Thinking about statistical probability and if I just hit the button 100X, I'll be in profit.
I'll just 'surf' my way in.
It's unpredictable... and can't be done
I just need to try harder
I can force it, or me, to be right... this time
Anger
It's a control issue
Bored
confused
The market is fascinating, and figuring out why people did what they did, how can you not like puzzling that out?

...all of those things change how I pay attention and when I press the button in spite of how simple the logical part of trading tells me when to press the button.

Db says few who have been damaged, who have fallen into bad trading habits, will change them. It is as important what you don't pay attention to as what you do.

So today I get to select a more conscious way of paying attention. Never quite tried this one before. A light touch... finesse. Being attentive in that way because of the unpredictability. It actually sounds kind of fun.

 

[niko]

Learning ways to pay attention is at the core of cognitive rehab, and cognitive rehab is arguably what Db is offering us as damaged traders.

So little of trading is dependent on logic. For example, in posts #2 & 3 a very logical and simple SLA thing is laid out. Yet when I press the button for an entry or exit is based maybe 20% that logic... it's 80% my attitude and perceptions.
Am I in fear? I hit the button at a different time than if not.
Greed? Different again.
Thinking of conserving capitol?
Confident and relaxed.
Thinking about statistical probability and if I just hit the button 100X, I'll be in profit.
I'll just 'surf' my way in.
It's unpredictable... and can't be done
I just need to try harder
I can force it, or me, to be right... this time
Anger
It's a control issue
Bored
confused
The market is fascinating, and figuring out why people did what they did, how can you not like puzzling that out?

...all of those things change how I pay attention and when I press the button in spite of how simple the logical part of trading tells me when to press the button.

Db says few who have been damaged, who have fallen into bad trading habits, will change them. It is as important what you don't pay attention to as what you do.

So today I get to select a more conscious way of paying attention. Never quite tried this one before. A light touch... finesse. Being attentive in that way because of the unpredictability. It actually sounds kind of fun.

Great post. You nailed it with the Rehab touch.

 

[Roffe]

Learning ways to pay attention is at the core of cognitive rehab, and cognitive rehab is arguably what Db is offering us as damaged traders.

I've actually recently started to teach myself to draw, among other things as a way to boost my perceptual abilities.

 

[Hooti]

Db has suggested drawing as part of the prep for each trading day. Makes sense.

The last three trading days have been different. Day before yesterday I reached some level of paying attention consciously to specific things, and excluding others... I've done this at times before, but it was just happening as a consequence of other things.

I took notes, and thought, and tried to go there yesterday with some positive results. I couldn't stick with paying attention as much as I'd like though. Huh. It's harder than it looks.

So today I went back to observing and working the mental part. I needed to observe myself while the market is moving. And pay attention!

NoDoji often says to 'say out loud' what you are thinking while you are trading. That helped. My neighbors might think I'm crazy, but, oh well.

 

[Hooti]

I need to drill more this 'paying attention' thing. Will over this weekend. It is much harder than it looks.

Almost feel sheepish about it. It's like I'm going back to work on something that has to happen before I'm even ready to start observing the market: observing my own inner dialog and stuff. But I'm really happy with the last few days. It is surprising how events in the market are jumping out at me. I'm also suddenly aware of some errors I've been making, that I knew were there but couldn't seem to get a handle on. ...Like letting outside things interrupt and influence my trading choices.

This is cool and I believe goes to being able to eventually trade size. It is laying in a foundation and worth the extra time. Laissez Faire has posted recently. I remember when he was posting live trades and for months he just nailed it. Yet he talks about eventually increasing size and then having a big draw down. Another person in chat today, a very experienced trader, spoke of three times reaching "trading mastery achieved" levels and then failing badly each time.

In my own experience there have been times when I was profitable for days, weeks, even months... yet not able to keep it working.

I thought I had a plan before but now see I really didn't. And didn't know how to use one if I did. It's the plan, the routine, the whole package.

That is why I'm here and listening to Db. And everyone else. Thanks

 

[NoDoji]

I need to drill more this 'paying attention' thing. Will over this weekend. It is much harder than it looks.

[...]

I thought I had a plan before but now see I really didn't. And didn't know how to use one if I did. It's the plan, the routine, the whole package.

That is why I'm here and listening to Db. And everyone else. Thanks

Paying attention is really difficult for me too. I'm pretty focused for about 2 hours, then I get easily distracted.

I thought I had a plan each time, too, and realized that all I had was trading ideas that worked until they didn't. :eek:

A real plan (for me) describes the setups (patterns in context), the signals, the entry methods, the R:R parameters and the trade management rules. With the whole package in place, it's easier to get to this point (I believe db posted this somewhere):

"He doesn't have to know what the market will do next because he knows how he will react to anything the market does and is confident in his ability to react correctly."

 

[Hooti]

I thought I had a plan before but now see I really didn't. And didn't know how to use one if I did. It's the plan, the routine, the whole package.

I re-read my journal so far. What it really is about is looking at my own successes, but then getting off track. LF talks about this in his trading career. NoDoji talks about it. There is only one local trader I know well. He took a $10,000 dollar account and ran it up to $600,000 in less than two years. Amazing guy. But then he had a big loss, and after that just couldn’t do anything right. Similar to LF, he quit trading when he finally got back down to $100,000. He’s traded some since, but…

So I’m thinking of that and looking to get my tracks laid down well so I know what I will do in advance. I want to have confidence in my ability to react correctly. RN’s “if you are not doing the exact correct things over and over, you are getting further and further from success”. This is not just having a tight mechanical plan, it’s having character as a trader.

There is something about these big losses that causes a trader to lose his mojo. [Maybe small losses can do this also!] I know I’ve made profits over time. NoDoji did, LF did, my friend did. But with trading, when your mojo is gone, you are hung.

A non-trader can’t understand why if you were successful once, how come you can’t just get back on track and do what you were doing that worked?!
Sounds dumb as can be.

In a way it is not that big a puzzle. I do think it is experience and character and a traders mindset. I’m working on being really clear, really simple. Sustainable.

 

[Hooti]

Homework assignment for the weekend:
Go through all my chat note's so far and pull out the 'best of Db'.
See it, say it, hear it, write it physically out on 3 x 5 cards.
Sort them into themes.
See what happens.

So I have about 50 note cards spread out on my desk, seeing how they fit together. Sorting how these ideas go with those.

After awhile I notice my clip board on the side of the desk with notes I've been jotting down under the general heading "How to finesse (not force or be to lax)'. I have categories of setting up my prep, entries, exits and how to wait in-between entries and exits.

I look at everything I've written on my clip board. I look at the note cards. They don't jive.

The conclusion I came to goes back to Db's analogy about watching say... two high school football teams play. You don't know the towns, you don't know anybody on the team. You don't care at all who wins, but you love the game and are watching how it plays out. You see it without caring who wins... without caring about winning. Without caring about profit?

Three note cards stood out:
"...doing the exact right things, over and over." -- from RN the only non Db card!

'Traders mindset' means keep taking retraces (as long as not in chop).

The goal is complete dis-interest in who is winning.
_______________

Instead of caring first about profits, you are doing the exact right things over and over... taking retraces as long as not in chop with complete dis-interest in who is winning.


I wonder how this applies to those who have attained high levels of success and then crashed? And getting back up and going again?