You'll need to explain why doing those things without a God and without any obligation, is not even more worthy.
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Six Iranians arrested for dancing to promote islam
- Thread starter Max E.
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You'll need to explain why doing those things without a God and without any obligation, is not even more worthy.
When and How does science repent for its many wrongs to humanity?
The Atheist Scientists that rule the world today, have made every attempt possible to suppress religion and it's teachings in all class rooms.
It isn't actually science or it's knowledge that needs to repent nor does it suppresses religion, but rather things like reasonable argument which contends religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public, start waving it around and shoving it down children's throats.
To start from the premise "people are good" seems to miss the point of inalienable rights. So not all people are moral. What was the point?
It is argued inalienable rights are discovered rather than especially man made, concepts deemed not to be contingent but universal and irremovable.
That is no reason for them not to exist. Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness; are you saying no one has enjoyed those and it's pointless owning a right to them, because they may or don't exist?
What I'm saying is that "inalienable" rights have no more objective existence than the gods do. They are manmade. Yes, we can enjoy them, so long as everyone agrees they exist and acts as if they exist--they're desirable fictions. So they're not really inalienable imo, not like a necessary part of our anatomy. Man giveth and Man taketh away.
They're still worth fighting for, of course.
That's fair enough Ricter, but are you saying life for instance is not a necessity, like a part of your anatomy?
No. I think it's tautological, but life is a necessary condition for the existence of an individual. (And yet, when life ends the individual ends, so can one truly say the individual experiences death?) I suppose you could say the concept of "inalienable rights" points to the wishful thinking that life is not a sufficient condition. Nature, red in tooth and claw, would disagree.
Anyway, you're position has been correct. The Founders, being rationalists, had no need to evoke the redundancy of a god or creator, as evidenced by their first draft. They fully understood that it was they themselves creating fundamental rights (I contend it's "out of thin air"). I said earlier that the inclusion of a higher authority was merely politically expedient, it includes that other government, the church.
Wrong rectum. God was in the original rough draft; just not capitalized. Not that it matters anyway because it was a DRAFT. As for your "theory," unfortunately for you it flies in the face of the final, signed version. What part of "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" don't you understand? The clear, obvious interpretation is that basic human rights are God-given and thus cannot be taken away by man. Not that I'd expect a libturd to get that right anyway.The Founders, being rationalists, had no need to evoke the redundancy of a god or creator, as evidenced by their first draft. They fully understood that it was they themselves creating fundamental rights (I contend it's "out of thin air"). I said earlier that the inclusion of a higher authority was merely politically expedient, it includes that other government, the church.
So you can say that a group of old gray haired governors of the church in Italy did an injustice to science a few centuries ago, but How does this discredit the teachings of the bible?
Persecutors of religion often overlook the acts of individuals, but instead would rather cast blame on religion itself.
This baffles me, because so many who attempt to debase religion and the bible profess to be of scientific faith, which by definition is proposed to exercise the most scrutiny of all.
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http://americanhumanist.org/humanism/Some_Reasons_Why_Humanists_Reject_the_Bible
Instances of cruel and unjust behavior by the biblical God are seen in the most basic Christian doctrines. Some of Godâs acts that harmed the innocent are as follows.
He damned the whole human race and cursed the entire creation because of the acts of two people (Genesis 3:16-23; Romans 5:18); he drowned pregnant women and innocent children and animals at the time of the Flood (Genesis 7:20-23); he tormented the Egyptians and their animals with hail and disease because pharaoh refused to let the Israelites leave Egypt (Exodus 9:8-11,25); and he killed Egyptian babies at the time of the Passover (Exodus 12:29-30).
After the Exodus he ordered the Israelites to exterminate the men, women, and children of seven nations and steal their land (Deuteronomy 7:1-2); he killed King Davidâs baby because of Davidâs adultery with Bathsheba (II Samuel 12:13-18); he required the torture and murder of his own son (e.g., Romans 3:24-25); and he promised to send non-Christians to eternal torture (e.g., Revelation 21:8).
More Slaughters Ordered by the Lord
Besides the unfairness and heartlessness contained in many well-known Christian teachings, the Bible has other violent tales that are opposed to civilized standards of morality. Among the most shocking Bible passages are those that portray God as ordering or approving the extermination of various people, including children and the elderly. Here are examples:
â¢At I Samuel 15:3, the prophet Samuel gives King Saul this commandment from the Lord: "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
â¢Ezekiel 9:4-7 has this harrowing account: "And the Lord said unto him, Go through . . . the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark. . . ."
â¢Hosea 13:16 describes a punishment from the Lord: "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
â¢Deuteronomy 32:23-25 says that after the Israelites incited God's jealousy by worshiping other gods, he vowed: "I will spend mine arrows upon them. . . . The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs."
â¢In Numbers chapter 31, the Lord approves of these instructions that Moses gave to the Israelite soldiers about how to treat certain women and children captured in war: "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
â¢Isaiah 13:9,15-18 contains this message from God: "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger. . . . Every one that is found shall be thrust through. . . . Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes . . . and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them. . . . [T]hey shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not spare children."
These verses expose the biblical God as having the morals of a sociopathic mass murderer.
Examples of Godâs Other Cruel Methods
The God of the Bible displayed his sadistic tendencies by employing a variety of other means to torment and kill people.
He caused the earth to open and swallow entire families (Numbers 16:37-32); he used fire to devour people (e.g., Leviticus 10:1-2; Numbers 11:1-2); and he punished the Israelites with wars, famines, and pestilences (e.g., Ezekiel 5:11-17).
He sent wild animals such as bears (II Kings 2:23-24), lions (II Kings 17:24-25), and serpents (Numbers 21:6) to attack people; he sanctioned slavery (e.g., Leviticus 25:44-46); he ordered religious persecution (e.g., Deuteronomy 13:12-16); and he caused cannibalism (Jeremiah 19:9).
Disproportionate Punishments by the Lord
The biblical God is also guilty of inflicting punishments that are grossly disproportionate to the acts committed. In the American legal system, such disproportion violates the U.S. Constitutionâs Eighth Amendment, which prohibits cruel and unusual punishments.
Obviously, to punish people who are completely innocent, as seen in the preceding Bible verses, constitutes punishment that is horribly disproportionate to the moral culpability of the recipients. And there are other instances where the biblical God's punishments are shockingly harsh compared to the acts committed.
For example, the Old Testament says the Lord prescribed execution for the "crimes" of working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:15); cursing oneâs parents (Leviticus 20:9); worshiping other gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5); enticing a friend or family member to worship other gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-10); being a witch, medium, or wizard (Exodus 22:18; Leviticus 20:27); engaging in homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13); and not being a virgin on oneâs wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21).
In the New Testament, God became far worse in regard to imposing excessively severe punishments. It would be hard to imagine anything more cruel and disproportionate than punishing people with eternal torture for mere disbelief that Jesus was the son of God.
The inability to believe that proposition harms no one, and it has been disbelieved by some of the greatest benefactors of humanity. Nonetheless, God promises to punish them and all other nonbelievers with the most horrible pain conceivable.
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http://americanhumanist.org/humanism/Some_Reasons_Why_Humanists_Reject_the_Bible
Obviously, to punish people who are completely innocent, .
That's just it, trendlover, thunderdog, or whoever you are.
God never punished anyone who didn't have it comin. Except Jesus, who took the punishment for mankind. And God isn't sending people to hell. You choose to go there.
That's just it, trendlover, thunderdog, or whoever you are.
God never punished anyone who didn't have it comin. Except Jesus, who took the punishment for mankind. And God isn't sending people to hell. You choose to go there.
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http://americanhumanist.org/humanism...ject_the_Bible
he killed King Davidâs baby because of Davidâs adultery with Bathsheba (II Samuel 12:13-18);
I find the fact that man wrote the Bible more encouraging than the idea that some "God" did.
We don't need any artificial "God". We just need to continue to be smart and moral people. We are God.
It's noted that there are a great many Atheist that only believe in what Science can prove, and claim to only rely on what is falsifiable.
Science has no explanation for the existence of Morals, as they're not testable or falsifiable, yet these Scientists cling to their Morality, as though it is of the utmost importance.
They can't explain why they feel compelled to be moral, which leads me to believe that there belief and their servitude to Morality can only be a matter of Faith.
Do you see the irony?