Site Problems this Morning.
- Thread starter Baron
- Start date
I was joking about the mentoring.
The problem with the thread starter being able to block posters, is it can be used as a weapon to silence people who challenge the thread starter. This can be dangerous as I have seen a case on another forum where a thread starter scammed many people, after building a following on his thread, anyone who questioned his methodology was banned from posting on his thread.
Then again it may be worth the risk if great posters like EricP are put off due to trolls.
These are issues that has been discussed here in the feedback several times each and every year for about 10 years.
I'm sure Baron has finally concluded that "private threads" is the only option considering traders are using more and more social media (e.g. twitter, stocktwits, facebook) as their source of collaboration with other traders. Thus, he's come up with a solution that hopefully keeps those traders here that tend to make useful content instead of them posting the useful content elsewhere.
Baron
ET Founder
There are two models when it comes to collaboration.
First you have the public model where anybody can join in and participate. This model works great for collective knowledge purposes, but can be quickly derailed by trolls and other types of disruptive people.
Then you have the private, or invitation-only model. This one works fantastic for keeping idiots from disrupting things, but it's usually pretty bad for actually getting something useful out it because the circle of participation is drastically smaller.
So what I am trying to accomplish is to give you the best of both worlds. Public collaboration for maximum reach and learning, and then private conversations for topics that don't necessarily require public involvement. So for example, you might visit the Automated Trading forum and see that two or three guys really know what they are talking about. So you invite only those guys into a private conversation to get their input on a problem you are having with some of your proprietary code. This works well because you are filtering out the possibility of getting opinions from people who aren't qualified to help you, and it also keeps your proprietary code and information out of the public view.
Also keep in mind that private conversations really depend on the public boards to even be useful, as there wouldn't be any reason to invite people into a private conversation unless you'd already pre qualified them as being like-minded or valuable in some way by what they posted publicly.
First you have the public model where anybody can join in and participate. This model works great for collective knowledge purposes, but can be quickly derailed by trolls and other types of disruptive people.
Then you have the private, or invitation-only model. This one works fantastic for keeping idiots from disrupting things, but it's usually pretty bad for actually getting something useful out it because the circle of participation is drastically smaller.
So what I am trying to accomplish is to give you the best of both worlds. Public collaboration for maximum reach and learning, and then private conversations for topics that don't necessarily require public involvement. So for example, you might visit the Automated Trading forum and see that two or three guys really know what they are talking about. So you invite only those guys into a private conversation to get their input on a problem you are having with some of your proprietary code. This works well because you are filtering out the possibility of getting opinions from people who aren't qualified to help you, and it also keeps your proprietary code and information out of the public view.
Also keep in mind that private conversations really depend on the public boards to even be useful, as there wouldn't be any reason to invite people into a private conversation unless you'd already pre qualified them as being like-minded or valuable in some way by what they posted publicly.
The problem for EliteTrader, is that ET cannot compete with the technology of collaboration products such as Skype. As a result, you have the first collaboration model, the public model, where people come for entertainment and perhaps a slight bit of information. Then, they go into small groups on their own using products like Skype to interact and share useful information without the disruptions and uncontrolled crap that would be faced on ET. Sadly, good content is forever lost on ET as members choose not to share it here, where they'll be faced with flames and attacks from immature posters with little knowledge.
If ET wants to improve the quality of the content, there must be a way to reign in the crap that makes the site undesirable. Self moderation of threads is an obvious answer. If you don't like my thread, don't read it. If you don't like that some idiot has a thread and posts garbabe, don't read it. But, if there is a quality thread by a well respected member of the site, they should be empowered to keep it free from unadulterated pollution by deleting off topic or aggressive posts, and even banning future posting from members that are ruining the thread. Creating an maintaining a 'quality' thread can be time consuming and generate substantial value for ET. However, what's the point, if you spend 10-20+ hours to develop great content on a quality thread, only to have a senseless clueless member pollute all over it every day for the next week, ruining the continuity of the information and discussion? Better to use ET as a source of entertainment and post little of lasting value, than to try to be helpful and get shit all over without protection or recourse, IMO. That said, ET will certainly survive regardless. It's just a question of the quality of the site and the information on the site in the future.
Baron
ET Founder
Actually, I think those services mentioned are pretty much horrible. In fact anyone that would use Facebook as their primary means of collaborating with other traders has serious issues. The only thing I ever see on there is pictures, retarded status updates and stupid memes. Linkedin is a big permission-based spam-a-thon. Stocktwits is just a modern Silicon Investor for stressed out retail investors, and don't even get me started on Twitter.
I have nothing against the implementation of new features that you think will improve your business. That said, I don't expect to use it, nor is it likely that the trader friends of mine would use it. Other products, such as Skype, work perfectly well for that purpose and I would prefer to use Skype for many reasons.
The value of ET, IMO, is for broad scale information sharing and interaction (essentially, "open to the public", for all to see and contribute). However, without the controls that I have mentioned, it loses much of its value and degrades into a near hopeless mess.
I look at ET from the point of view of the public. What serves the public interest? What will create the best 'value' for the members of ET? I assume that improving the value to the trading community will result in a larger population on ET and more income to the owner of the site. However, the financial side of things is your 'problem', not mine.
An old ET feature was the ET chatroom. I'm not sure if that feature is still active (I think not, but can't say for sure). However, that suffered from the same problem as your current situation (with a new private group feature) => Other products were very well supporting the chatroom needs of the trading community (IRC, later Skype, etc). The chatroom business was never a core part of ET, and it failed. I suspect that you'll find 'private threads' end with the same result.
I would love to see ET stick to it's roots. Focus on how ET can provide the most value to the trading community. How can ET best deliver quality information to those seeking answers to their trading questions? How can ET provide the best forum to those seeking to merely relax and chat about trading topics? Time and time again, I hear the biggest 'turn off' about ET is the unfettered pollution, attacks and flames that become common on the site.
I appreciate the creation of the Politics and Religion forum as an attempt (years ago) to try to filter many of those arguments off the trading forums. That said, the crap continues to fill the pages of other forums all too often. The current 'solution' of using Moderators is not the solution. If that worked, we would not see the ongoing flaming and crap that we have today. Find an alternative, and try to make the site a more friendly and welcoming place to relax and share information and you'll have a better site. I've offered one suggestion of how to do this. If you don't like my idea, develop a new one. Fix this issue and your site will develop a larger and more mutually beneficial community.
Quote from Baron:
Actually, I think those services mentioned are pretty much horrible. In fact anyone that would use Facebook as their primary means of collaborating with other traders has serious issues. The only thing I ever see on there is pictures, retarded status updates and stupid memes. Linkedin is a big permission-based spam-a-thon. Stocktwits is just a modern Silicon Investor for stressed out retail investors, and don't even get me started on Twitter.
The issue that other social networks are bad or good isn't the real issue.
The issue is that they are growing FAST with use by retail and professional traders. I myself first heard about stocktwits through Bloomberg when a floor trader mentioned he was talking to some trading pals on "stocktwits". I watched it for awhile and noticed how fast it was growing month to month especially the mobility (being mobile) issue.
I remember one day checking in with ET about the Eurex DAX futures. On that particular day there was only 1 message about the DAX futures and it involved a flame (personal attack). In contrast, I counted like 30 trading related messages about Eurex DAX on stocktwits. You began to see even more of a contrast between ET versus other social networks when it involves highly liquid trading instruments (e.g. Emini ES futures) or foreign markets.
Some say twitter, stocktwits, facebook, blogs and so on are just a new fashion fad. Yet, they are still growing fast with use by both retail and professional traders as a collaboration tool during the trading day.
Funny thing is that most on ET have heard of twitter, facebook, stocktwits. Yet, as an example, when I talk to traders on stocktwits most have not heard of Elitetrader.com
At last check, ET doesn't have a app...maybe its time you guys put together a mobile app to put more distance between you and other traditional trader discussion forums.