Since 2014 The US Has Added 571,000 Waiters And Bartenders And Lost 34,000 Manufacturing Workers

[Sig]

I can't imagine why sig feels the need to attack random posters in such a juvenile school yard manner. This behavioral profile demonstrates a mental state of someone with unresolved anger issues. I certainly wouldn't want him as a boss, neighbor or teacher. He does appear overly full of himself, demeaning those he feels are less knowledgeable.
The article clearly states it's sources, Bureau of Labor Statitistics, National Restaurant Association and even suggest the National Bureau of Economic Research for follow up info. Perhaps sig should address them directly if he needs somewhere to exercise his inflated ego. ZH simply republished govt releases we're all expected to accept as official facts. People who wish to dissect those facts into finer slices that serve their own purposes are free to do so. No need to shoot the messenger. I
Baron, Orlando is a statistical outlier re: restaurants. It is, and has been for years, one of the fastest growing cities in the country due to it's destination tourism revolving around Disney etc. Vacationers eat all their meals out.

I wish you all the best in all your endeavors Banjo. In my world when something posts something misleading they get called on it. We call that living in a reality based world, and if you can accept and learn from it then it will make you a better person. I certainly expect the same from you, although sadly you completely ignored my point and focused on something I didn't disagree with in any way (I have no doubt that the number of waiters increased in absolute numbers as the graph indicated or the number of manufacturing jobs fell, never said I did). I only wish I went to your school if pointing out gaps in logic and misuse of statistics was what the school yard bullies and those with anger issues engaged in!

 

[newwurldmn]

I think your point that we compare like to like in education levels is a valid one (I also hold a similar opinion on Zerohedge, you didn't miss much on the actual article). I'd maintain that there is a vast landscape of tech jobs out there that don't require a 4 year degree, from sysadmins and support techs to hardware installation and maintenance. Military is a case in point, there are a large number of military operational specialties (MOSs for you military types) in the enlisted ranks that are entirely tech focused, the vast majority of which are filled by people straight out of high school, although many get degrees through night programs as their careers progress. This is where the majority of the new jobs over the last 20 years have been created and will be created going forward. I'd maintain that to decide that we have to contrast the loss of manufacturing jobs only with the growth of wait staff jobs is a strawman. I'd also maintain that it doesn't take privilege to get education. I came from solidly lower middle class and did fine, but I think the real example are all the enlisted men and women who served under me and got technical bachelor's degrees working at night and on weekends, while also working long weeks in demanding jobs that required them to up and move across the country every 2-4 years and to go on multi-month deployments every year. If large numbers of people in that situation can do it I'd maintain that it's widely achievable for those with much more stable lives and easier access to educational opportunity.

Finally I'd also argue, having worked a summer job on an assembly line, that calling a manufacturing job "higher quality" is a bit of a stretch or at least highly relative. I admittedly haven't worked as a bar tender, but besides picking fruit (my previous year's summer job) factory work is right up there on the crappy jobs list.

I think the reason the comparison is relevant is because the current political rhetoric is around manufacturing jobs and the rhetoric around Obama's unemployment figures are that they are all low quality jobs. Waiting is considered a low quality job because wages tend to be low, work tend to be temporary, and in America its considered to be degrading to serve someone else. Manufacturing jobs tend to be considered higher quality because they can be longer term (like the "good ole days") and something tangible is produced.

Some manufacturing jobs are more basic than others. More and more manufacturing is getting more and more skilled. There is a shortage of workers for these roles.

I agree, more people should be going to trade schools. However, that isn't strictly financially easy, but that burden should be bearable by most. Personally, I believe the government should be encouraging more people into trade schools and community colleges with a focus on practical skills. (On an aside, I found the Trump University settlement appalling because it legitimizes the scummy parts of For-Profit education).

 

[luisHK]

The tiny bit you call assembly resulted in China becoming the world's most successful mobile phone design and manufacturing hub. Some call it adaptation, others call it blatant theft and industry espionage. Meanwhile Apple will lose market share going forward from now on. All ready Huawei's top notch phones shit on Apple's newest creations. You are ignoring those cost of outsourcing manufacturing. Apple paid a huge price and so did Samsung.

Oh I just noticed you edited your already good post. I was thinking of Huawei before the edit actually... yes, great phones, and for those like me who don't like Samsung like android interfaces, Huawei completely ripped Apple's, it is very similar to use.
Still have some issue with their app store, as many apps granted through apple app store are not available, including a bunch of educative ones, and models sold in the Mainland are less foreigners' friendly the iphones.

Funny stuff is a few months ago, Iphone 6 or 5 was banned for sale in Beijing, because it was accused of beeing a copy of some local phone. No idea if the ban lasted but Intelectual property in China is in a world of its own.

Besides how many accounts/nicknames have you used already on this site Zzzzzzz1 ?

 

[ironchef]

I think the reason the comparison is relevant is because the current political rhetoric is around manufacturing jobs and the rhetoric around Obama's unemployment figures are that they are all low quality jobs. Waiting is considered a low quality job because wages tend to be low, work tend to be temporary, and in America its considered to be degrading to serve someone else. Manufacturing jobs tend to be considered higher quality because they can be longer term (like the "good ole days") and something tangible is produced.

Some manufacturing jobs are more basic than others. More and more manufacturing is getting more and more skilled. There is a shortage of workers for these roles.

I agree, more people should be going to trade schools. However, that isn't strictly financially easy, but that burden should be bearable by most. Personally, I believe the government should be encouraging more people into trade schools and community colleges with a focus on practical skills. (On an aside, I found the Trump University settlement appalling because it legitimizes the scummy parts of For-Profit education).

I understand China is desperately trying to reduce their reliance on manufacturing and to increase service type jobs? We should switch places with them?

 

[newwurldmn]

I understand China is desperately trying to reduce their reliance on manufacturing and to increase service type jobs? We should switch places with them?

I think the Chinese government has only one objective: keep employment high. Busy workers don't revolt over things like freedom of speech.

 

[sle]

It's obvious that service economy is going to replace manufacturing economy as we are progressing toward saturation with material goods. To quote my former boss (RIP), "you only need one Rolex, but you'd want to keep getting those blowjobs".

 

[NoBias]

lol

 

[piezoe]

This article is a great example of why I don't read them. First, they pull the logical fallacy of using absolute numbers in a relative world. The U.S. added 571,000 waiters and bartenders since 2014, so what. Without context and normalizing that number is meaningless. Did the percentage of the workforce who were waiters and bartenders go up or go down? We don't know from that number. Was the number artificially depressed from 2008-20014 and we're just bouncing back to the normal number, again with the data they provided we don't know, even though knowing both those items are crucial to even beginning to think about the point they're trying to make. The worst is that they know what they're doing, but they're being intellectually dishonest in hopes you'll either read over it quickly and miss it or just not have the critical thinking skills to catch it in the first place. There are plenty of technical news sources I can use that don't force me to catch the author's intentional attempt to mislead me, so I tend to rely on them instead.
Add to that, they frame this as if the entire U.S. job market is made up of either waiters or manufacturers. They completely ignore the tech sector, the most dynamic and most quickly growing segment of the job market, as well as many other sectors, and come to the fallacious determination that we lost X manufacturing jobs and turned them all into Y waiter and bartender jobs. Again, I tend to try to get my information from people who aren't trying to play games like this. Games like this seem to be all that Zero Hedge does.

I'd give your remarks 10 to the tenth power of "likes" if I could.

 

[Zzzz1]

China can nowadays almost manufacture anything at absolute top quality. That is already a given as the evidence is sufficiently out there. Nowadays Chinese companies also create their own top notch products which is OK in case the knowhow was obtained legally and if China allowed foreign competitors to operate in Z china in the same way than Chinese companies can sell their products abroad and conduct R&D and acquire foreign entities. That's not the case, however, and I hope Trump will have the guts to go all ape on this issue.

How many other aliases I have here? I only have this one. Why? Someone who knows China is a rare commodity on this site?

Oh I just noticed you edited your already good post. I was thinking of Huawei before the edit actually... yes, great phones, and for those like me who don't like Samsung like android interfaces, Huawei completely ripped Apple's, it is very similar to use.
Still have some issue with their app store, as many apps granted through apple app store are not available, including a bunch of educative ones, and models sold in the Mainland are less foreigners' friendly the iphones.

Funny stuff is a few months ago, Iphone 6 or 5 was banned for sale in Beijing, because it was accused of beeing a copy of some local phone. No idea if the ban lasted but Intelectual property in China is in a world of its own.

Besides how many accounts/nicknames have you used already on this site Zzzzzzz1 ?

 

[ironchef]

I think the Chinese government has only one objective: keep employment high. Busy workers don't revolt over things like freedom of speech.

In the limit when we eventually automate all manufacturing, all jobs will be "service jobs".

My proposal to increase the pay for waiting and bartending is the US government should regulate waiting and bartending to make sure you need a federally issued license, a mandatory 4 years of college to study waiting on table, then the pays will definitely increase.