Simulators

Ctrader,

I used audittrack for a couple of months as part of an online CME class I took two years ago (insert laughter here). I assume you have looked at the Demo on their web site. It looks exactly like I remember it.

I think the fills were fairly realistic (better than most of the simulators built in to the broker platforms) but it would probably depend on your trading time-frame. For very short-term trades (in and out within a minute) I think you would find the fills too slow. But if you are trading in a longer time frame I think it is probably as good or better than any other simulations out there.

The only other one that looks interesting is the Fastffill simulator. I haven't tried that one yet. The interactive brokers one is basically worthless except to learn how to use the trading interface. I also tried one from PFGBest (?) and the fills were seemed unrealistic for the eminis.

Unlike most of the other posters, I would say try it - nothing to lose except $50 a month. Keep an eye on your real time feed and decide for yourself if the fills look plausible.

Just keep in mind that unfortunately your results will probably suffer when you move to the real deal.

Hope this helps...let me know if you have any more questions about it,

Scribe
 
Simulator - is good for alot of things other than making you a good trader. (ie system testing, learning the basics of the market, like "whats that? A market maker! :D )

There is nothing that can help you become a good trader except you.

Live Trading - is where you add liquidity/volatility to the market, lose your ass, then hopefully come out ahead. Statistically, it's probably the worst carreer choice possible, but it's the capitalist dream. So dream on! :cool:

A few tips before you go live from someone whose been around the block:

1. Seperate your Timing and your Discipline (thats the biggest reason why people lose) If at all possible get a partner, or hire someone. One person handles TA, the other handles risk (trading) If you want to prove u can do both of those diametrically opposed jobs... the market is going to take your money and give it to the people who follow this rule. There is an elite few who have the self control to do both of these things, but if you think you are one of them, you will just become another decimal place in the 99% loser statistic.


2. Don't borrow money from anyone but your broker... thats what margin is for. It's professional lending. Friends don't make margin calls... they file lawsuits or stop being your friend. You'd be amazed how quickly a friendship can be ruined when money is lost.

3. The only people who make it consistently in this biz work very hard. I would start small, like around 2-5 k and try to make 100 dollars a day. If you do that every day for the rest of your trading carreer, you will be a winner... most daytraders make big and lose big.... ultimately they become losers. I don't know anyone who makes 30% a day year after year... or even 10% a day. So don't get hyped by the hypsters.

finally good luck.
 
I'd say simulators are almost essential prior to trading real time : until you consistently make money in a simulator, forget about going real time, because for various reasons previously outlined, your results will definitely be worse - & initially maybe a LOT worse - real time.

Then start as small as possible : not a bad suggestion to trade say 1 x $2 Dow mini (if it's really that small) to begin real time, to reach the point where the fact that you have real money at risk does not in & of itself distract you.

My 2 cents...
 
The best type of simulation is real-time market simulation that is done by a 3rd party or program that you can't "cheat" with. There is something to be said for gaining experience trading past days on a simulator. There is some value in this, as there is in altering the speed of simulated playback so you can gain more experience in a shorter period of time. However the best type of simulation is in real-time because this experience has feelings that are more like live-money trading associated with it. This is not to say that our feelings are simulated while using a simulator, but that the highs aren't as high and the lows aren't as low while simulating. Though if the simulation is realistic enough and if you put enough personal importance on good simulated results, then the feelings might be close. You have to learn patience to sit for long periods of time without taking a position. You really can't learn this from playing back past data at faster speeds. You have to learn patience in real time.

And just like many have pointed out, simulation is one level better than papertrading and is a good intermediate step between papertrading and live money trading. One thing is certain, if you can't make money consistently on a realistic simulator then you will not make it in live money trading. Simulators allow you to gain lots of experience without the risk of live money trading. There is a dose of reality that comes when money is actually on the line. This is the critical step that determines ultimate success in this business.
 
I appreciate everyones advice. This forum has been great for a newbie.

I have decided to try a month at auditrack. I'll let you all know how it goes.


I will try trading the $5 dow emini at auditrack. If it proves successful, I will go live with the $2 contract first.

Thanks again, you guys are awesome.
 
I want to second the opinion relating to trading the QQQ or SPY while watching the actual futures bids and offers.

I am doing exactly that right now. I have two IB TWS windows open at the same time. One for QQQ and the other for futures. Both are real and funded.

I do not watch or pay attention to the actual prices on the QQQ, just the futures. When it is time to make a trade, I actually hit the bid or offer in the QQQ, but I manually record the bid or offer that is showing at that moment in the futures window. I neither know nor care what the actual execution price is in the QQQ, I know that if the trade is good, I will be profitable in the QQQ trade. If it is bad, I will suffer a real loss.

I throw up a catastrophy stop loss for my QQQ trade (IB has an unfortunate tendancy to depart occasionally) and manage the trade from there, watching only the futures charts, time and sales, and actual bids and offers.

Because the QQQ tend to slip around and spread a bit from the futures, these amounts of profit and loss are not exactly proportional, but they are sure real.

At the end of the day, I can be pretty sure my actual P&L was representative of what it would have been had I traded the real futures, albeit much smaller.

Even then, taking a $14 loss is not the same as taking a 5 point hit in the NQ to the tune of $100. But it is as real as you are ever going to get short of trading a contract.

The disadvantage is that you must fund a $25,000 stock account to trade the QQQs. Thank you PDT rule :mad:

Since I had started with a stock account anyway, it only took the addition of $5000 to get the futures up and running too.

As soon (oh when.. oh when..) I become consistantly profitable, I will blow off the QQQ trading. The futures are actually easier to trade.

Anyway, hope this helps.
 
I paper traded the nq on pfgbest.com, they have a one month free deal then after a month it is about $30.00/month. there are several firms that offer a free time slot to paper trade. I learned alot from it, for example, my trading style, placing orders, learned some bad habits I had too. I say go for it and paper trade all you can. Obviously it would be best if simulates real trading closely. I know of one woman, who is quite successful at daytrading the naz emini, who started papertrading and swears that is what gave her the confidence to be successful. Maybe daytrading is like skiing, they say if you dont fall down, your not learning. But then again the experienced skiers dont fall down much either. And no, it is not real money, but it is the closest thing to really doing it, I hate to lose money in the simulator. I have lost real money in trading just not daytrading, so I feel I have paid my dues, atleast twice over . Day trading is less risky that swing or position trading, as a result the margins are cut by atleast one third. apex, for one. has a $1000/ contract margin, thats almost 1/4 of the margin to hold over 24 hrs. There a lot of folks on this board that say how hard it is to day trade and scalp points. I say that's an excuse for their lack of motivation to learn how to day trade and stick to a discipline. winners never quit trying, losers never tried at all. what you want to do is quite doable, keep plugging away at getting your system down. I recommend books by Jake Bernstein, just my personal favorite at the moment. And then get a good charting program and data feed. I have watched too many newbies get discouraged after posting on elitetrader, myself included.
 
If Jake Bernstein is your favorite author right now then obviously you haven't read very many good trading books. Just my opinion.
 
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