Hi there.. Does anybody know if there is a way that I can simulate actual stock trading. Im looking to practice trading the opening couple of hours and Im hoping I can find some accurate way of demo trading before I try anyhthng live. One option I was considering was using an interactive brokers account with button trader or ninja trader or something like that. Basically I want to simulate as close as possible to actual live stock trading. Any help and advice would be appreciated.
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Simulated stock trading
- Thread starter Big Game Hunter
- Start date
ib has a new paper trade demo that is 100% accurate.Quote from Big Game Hunter:
Hi there.. Does anybody know if there is a way that I can simulate actual stock trading. Im looking to practice trading the opening couple of hours and Im hoping I can find some accurate way of demo trading before I try anyhthng live. One option I was considering was using an interactive brokers account with button trader or ninja trader or something like that. Basically I want to simulate as close as possible to actual live stock trading. Any help and advice would be appreciated.
Thanks for the replys. Ive been looking at stock trading for a while and I honestly think that for people who are still finding there feet that its a really good way to find out if your good enough. Basically if you arm yourself with the fundamantals of good strategy then you can find out for real if your perceived edge is in fact going to translate into profits! I figure you need to show a couple of months of good solid results and then you can really feel that you are coming to the table with your skills honed.
One question though. When you say very realistic will it factor in the order book in calculating the prices depending on your size? And will slippage be realistically represented? Ive heard all the arguements against paper trading but I really think that if your serious about working out the game then a key step in the process is playing the game for fun without money on the line to test out your theories.
One question though. When you say very realistic will it factor in the order book in calculating the prices depending on your size? And will slippage be realistically represented? Ive heard all the arguements against paper trading but I really think that if your serious about working out the game then a key step in the process is playing the game for fun without money on the line to test out your theories.
Quote from Big Game Hunter:
Thanks for the replys. Ive been looking at stock trading for a while and I honestly think that for people who are still finding there feet that its a really good way to find out if your good enough. Basically if you arm yourself with the fundamantals of good strategy then you can find out for real if your perceived edge is in fact going to translate into profits! I figure you need to show a couple of months of good solid results and then you can really feel that you are coming to the table with your skills honed.
One question though. When you say very realistic will it factor in the order book in calculating the prices depending on your size? And will slippage be realistically represented? Ive heard all the arguements against paper trading but I really think that if your serious about working out the game then a key step in the process is playing the game for fun without money on the line to test out your theories.
ib is exactly the same as real money but will not give you the emotional experience you will need. you need money on the line to get that. dont forget stock trading is at least 50% emotional control.
Hi,
DAS Trader Pro is also offered as a demo. If memory serves, it uses real-time data. It worked fine as a demo, but have never used it with a live account. You can find it here: http://www.directaccesssoftware.com/demo.html
I have also used the eSignal paper trade feature. It is real-time, but I was using it to test scalp trades, and it would regularly give me fills much too far to my benefit. Sometimes .20 or .30 better than bid/ask, so it was pretty counter to real-world in that regard. If you are paper trading stocks at the open, I would warn against thinking the eSignal fills represent reality. Was too hard to keep track of that during scalp trades to make it worthwhile for my purposes. That said, eSignal has a 30-day risk-free sign up if you want to give it a shot: http://esignal.com/esignal/specials/default.asp#30day
I should note - In case you run past the 30-day trial, eSignal is pretty expensive. I used to use it, but have seen moved away due to the cost.
Hope it helps...
Enzo
DAS Trader Pro is also offered as a demo. If memory serves, it uses real-time data. It worked fine as a demo, but have never used it with a live account. You can find it here: http://www.directaccesssoftware.com/demo.html
I have also used the eSignal paper trade feature. It is real-time, but I was using it to test scalp trades, and it would regularly give me fills much too far to my benefit. Sometimes .20 or .30 better than bid/ask, so it was pretty counter to real-world in that regard. If you are paper trading stocks at the open, I would warn against thinking the eSignal fills represent reality. Was too hard to keep track of that during scalp trades to make it worthwhile for my purposes. That said, eSignal has a 30-day risk-free sign up if you want to give it a shot: http://esignal.com/esignal/specials/default.asp#30day
I should note - In case you run past the 30-day trial, eSignal is pretty expensive. I used to use it, but have seen moved away due to the cost.
Hope it helps...
Enzo
Quote from Big Game Hunter:
Thanks for the replys. Ive been looking at stock trading for a while and I honestly think that for people who are still finding there feet that its a really good way to find out if your good enough. Basically if you arm yourself with the fundamantals of good strategy then you can find out for real if your perceived edge is in fact going to translate into profits! I figure you need to show a couple of months of good solid results and then you can really feel that you are coming to the table with your skills honed.
One question though. When you say very realistic will it factor in the order book in calculating the prices depending on your size? And will slippage be realistically represented? Ive heard all the arguements against paper trading but I really think that if your serious about working out the game then a key step in the process is playing the game for fun without money on the line to test out your theories.
well to be honest my experience paper trading was limited to the s&p e-mini so i cant comment on the slippage because future contracts in small amounts at market price are pretty much instant fills.
using eSignals papertrader, when a market order was placed it was bought and sold at the actual bid/ask that the future was trading live.
commisions and the like are not subtracted in eSignal. trades were entered and exited at actual market value/price. commisions had to be manually figured/subtracted.
live trading introduces factors that simulators just cant reproduce though but i still feel they are extremelly valuable and usuable. i do personally feel though that the best learning experience is the combination of a simulator and a small real broker acct to get a feel for fill speed, a different functioning api, comission costs, the feeling of trading real money and other factors that add up and make a difference.
Just want to add, while I mentioned that the fills with eSignal paper trading were less than realistic, I still feel paper trading, using a realistic platform, can be a very important part of starting out trading.
While undoubtedly your emotional response to trading with real money will be different, it is very important to have a understanding of the mechanics of the process as well as a feel for the market before jumping in. Lots of mistakes and money loss can be avoided if you run through the process for a while
I paper traded for months before starting with real money, and it was helpful in that regard. I am very thankful I did not make some of the order-entry mistakes, etc, with real money that I was making paper trading.
That said, I think that it is a mistake to rely on the results of your paper trading as an indicator of how you will trade live, and this is a very easy trap to fall into.
For example, I got to the point where I was doing wonderfully paper trading for a month or two solid before deciding to make the switch, and once I did, I immediately began loosing money. This was due to an inflated sense of confidence due to the paper trading, and trading too big size because of that. Once I realized the probs, it took a while to dig myself out of that initial hole. Bummer of a way to start.
Please be aware of this phenomenon, and do what you can to avoid it.
Get a great feel for what trading is all about via the simulation, but when you decide to jump in with real money, take it very slow. Small shares, take your time, focus on making great trades and not try to make a ton of money each time.
Also, a very important (critical to my strategy) part of trading is money management and position sizing. If you can read up on some of this while you are still trading on paper, I think it would benefit you greatly.
One last thing, you mentioned trading the open. Not trying to be discouraging, but the opening is a pretty tough time to trade for the unprepared as it is highly volatile. Many traders avoid trading the open because of this. Take note of this during your simulated trading, and if you decide you want to do it when you go live with the money account, I would suggest go really small shares.
Enzo
While undoubtedly your emotional response to trading with real money will be different, it is very important to have a understanding of the mechanics of the process as well as a feel for the market before jumping in. Lots of mistakes and money loss can be avoided if you run through the process for a while
I paper traded for months before starting with real money, and it was helpful in that regard. I am very thankful I did not make some of the order-entry mistakes, etc, with real money that I was making paper trading.
That said, I think that it is a mistake to rely on the results of your paper trading as an indicator of how you will trade live, and this is a very easy trap to fall into.
For example, I got to the point where I was doing wonderfully paper trading for a month or two solid before deciding to make the switch, and once I did, I immediately began loosing money. This was due to an inflated sense of confidence due to the paper trading, and trading too big size because of that. Once I realized the probs, it took a while to dig myself out of that initial hole. Bummer of a way to start.
Please be aware of this phenomenon, and do what you can to avoid it.
Get a great feel for what trading is all about via the simulation, but when you decide to jump in with real money, take it very slow. Small shares, take your time, focus on making great trades and not try to make a ton of money each time.
Also, a very important (critical to my strategy) part of trading is money management and position sizing. If you can read up on some of this while you are still trading on paper, I think it would benefit you greatly.
One last thing, you mentioned trading the open. Not trying to be discouraging, but the opening is a pretty tough time to trade for the unprepared as it is highly volatile. Many traders avoid trading the open because of this. Take note of this during your simulated trading, and if you decide you want to do it when you go live with the money account, I would suggest go really small shares.
Enzo
Quote from vhehn:
ib is exactly the same as real money but will not give you the emotional experience you will need. you need money on the line to get that. don't forget stock trading is at least 50% emotional control.
vhehn,
when you say "exactly the same", do you mean that IB's simulation program takes into account the book order sequence, i.e that you would get exactly the same fills as in real live trading? The difference in fills is usually the "missing link" between live- and simulated trading program. Would appreciate your input.
Thanks for the input guys. Just in case anyone is interested I thought Id list the names of some stocks that have made it my final list of tradeable names... BRCM NVDA KLAC AMGN SEPR SYMC GS LEH LEN RIMM SU SUN SNDK QCOM QLGC. These are all quality names. Trade large volume and have good intraday moves IMHO.