It is very interesting to see the difference in execution in SIM VS REAL. I believe in SIM I am more willing to allow trAdes to go against me, not move stop tighter and the trade works.
Sim vs Real Money Trading
- Thread starter John9999
- Start date
And when do you decide to shut it down? When your draw down exceeds 2 standard deviation of your worst Monte Carlo simulation? I don't think there is a way to get emotions out of trading. You need to measure your cohonnes and trade accordingly, IMHO.
Sim trading except for basic procedures is a waste of time.
Several years ago there was a research paper that was based on MRI scans of the brain during different types of game play.
When a player simply played a game for points, the MRI was activated in one region of the brain. When a player played the same game and money was involved a completely different part of the brain was activated. They did the same test with traders and found there was no difference between the basic game play for profit and trading markets for profits. The point is, it doesn't matter how much time you spend in sim trading - you are training a different part of your brain that you will not use when money is involved.
Another interesting point of the study was that the amount of money involved does not change the area of brain activation. Any amount will trigger the same 'money goal' area of the brain.
If you want to learn to trade, use a simulator for procedures and learning the software. That is a fine application of sim. If you want to trade, you have to trade real money. Find something you are comfortable with that you can afford a lot of losses. Open an Oanda account and put $200 in it and trade for 1 cent a pip. Open an Interactive Broker account and trade 1 share of any stock. Trade the smallest amount possible and then scale up as your skill improves. This way you are always activating the same area of the brain.
Good luck.
Several years ago there was a research paper that was based on MRI scans of the brain during different types of game play.
When a player simply played a game for points, the MRI was activated in one region of the brain. When a player played the same game and money was involved a completely different part of the brain was activated. They did the same test with traders and found there was no difference between the basic game play for profit and trading markets for profits. The point is, it doesn't matter how much time you spend in sim trading - you are training a different part of your brain that you will not use when money is involved.
Another interesting point of the study was that the amount of money involved does not change the area of brain activation. Any amount will trigger the same 'money goal' area of the brain.
If you want to learn to trade, use a simulator for procedures and learning the software. That is a fine application of sim. If you want to trade, you have to trade real money. Find something you are comfortable with that you can afford a lot of losses. Open an Oanda account and put $200 in it and trade for 1 cent a pip. Open an Interactive Broker account and trade 1 share of any stock. Trade the smallest amount possible and then scale up as your skill improves. This way you are always activating the same area of the brain.
Good luck.
When I was simming in Tradovate I was told by the owner that their sim was tuned to be as close to accurate as possible. He said I could subtract one-tick to be even more accurate.
Then a trader told me to use market orders for entry and exit....he said that if I could be profitable that way then that would be close to live trading...
ES
Then a trader told me to use market orders for entry and exit....he said that if I could be profitable that way then that would be close to live trading...
ES
SIM trading is not useless. To say it is is like saying practice for football is useless.
Take the Crimson Tide of Alabama. Their coach believes strongly in executing to the “T” one’s job and responsibility. Every player gets a notebook at the beginning of the year and they must study all the procedures and exactly how they are expected to execute them.
Then they go to the practice field and practice the executing of each play, over and over, again and again, and get hollered at and corrected if they failed to execute correctly. They are expected to be detailed and do their Job down to the “T”. That is why in any game even if the Tide is winning by a long shot and a player fails to execute correctly he will get an earful from the coach. It matters not to Saban if the score is 56 to 3. He expects a player to ALWAYS do his best. Simply because the score has nothing to do with “how” a player is to execute. While win ratio is important to the overall success (uh oh i hear some groans) it is NOT important in terms of the next trade to take. Precision in execution IS WHAT is important. Not the scoreboard at the moment. That said the scoreboard is important. You cannot lose every game and EXPECT be a champion. Not over the long haul.
They are also taught to be “mindful” and “focus on the moment” and on WHAT they are supposed to do in the immediate moment. They are also instructed to learn from, but to forget any failures, as they have no bearing on the success of the next play. The last trade has no bearing on the success of the next trade. You simply cannot allow a previous loss to color the procedures and execution of the next trade to come.
They are taught to overcome adversity. It doesn’t matter if the Tide is losing 31 to 6 they are expected to execute TO PRECISION their responsibility and to focus on the next play. The score has nothing to do with the next execution. This concept is drilled over and over again to them in their “noggins” and facilitates them many times overcoming real adversity.
When trading with “real” money traders have to learn to not let adversity rattle them and make them feel lost and powerless but instead focus on the execution of the next trade. Traders will have to learn to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps as nobody else will do it for them.
All of this SIM practice on the football field prepares them for the “real” game. This is where the pressure is. The SIM practice has prepared the Tide for the execution of their responsibilities. Now the test comes under PRESSURE. BUT SIM practice is why Alabama wins and WILL continue to win. Saban calls it “the process”. The process is what allows the concepts and responsibilities to not only be understood but also practiced until they can be executed with precision. The real test (game) shows what was really learned and assimilated in practice and if it was learned well enough under simulated conditions to be of real use, in a real game. Trading with real money is where the pressure is and shows our mettle. But without the practice we are basically “shooting in the dark”.
Traders COULD learn alot from Nick Saban and the Crimson Tide but they won’t. They had rather see the Tide fall than learn. So to speak.
¡Roll Tide!
ROFLMAO.
Take the Crimson Tide of Alabama. Their coach believes strongly in executing to the “T” one’s job and responsibility. Every player gets a notebook at the beginning of the year and they must study all the procedures and exactly how they are expected to execute them.
Then they go to the practice field and practice the executing of each play, over and over, again and again, and get hollered at and corrected if they failed to execute correctly. They are expected to be detailed and do their Job down to the “T”. That is why in any game even if the Tide is winning by a long shot and a player fails to execute correctly he will get an earful from the coach. It matters not to Saban if the score is 56 to 3. He expects a player to ALWAYS do his best. Simply because the score has nothing to do with “how” a player is to execute. While win ratio is important to the overall success (uh oh i hear some groans) it is NOT important in terms of the next trade to take. Precision in execution IS WHAT is important. Not the scoreboard at the moment. That said the scoreboard is important. You cannot lose every game and EXPECT be a champion. Not over the long haul.
They are also taught to be “mindful” and “focus on the moment” and on WHAT they are supposed to do in the immediate moment. They are also instructed to learn from, but to forget any failures, as they have no bearing on the success of the next play. The last trade has no bearing on the success of the next trade. You simply cannot allow a previous loss to color the procedures and execution of the next trade to come.
They are taught to overcome adversity. It doesn’t matter if the Tide is losing 31 to 6 they are expected to execute TO PRECISION their responsibility and to focus on the next play. The score has nothing to do with the next execution. This concept is drilled over and over again to them in their “noggins” and facilitates them many times overcoming real adversity.
When trading with “real” money traders have to learn to not let adversity rattle them and make them feel lost and powerless but instead focus on the execution of the next trade. Traders will have to learn to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps as nobody else will do it for them.
All of this SIM practice on the football field prepares them for the “real” game. This is where the pressure is. The SIM practice has prepared the Tide for the execution of their responsibilities. Now the test comes under PRESSURE. BUT SIM practice is why Alabama wins and WILL continue to win. Saban calls it “the process”. The process is what allows the concepts and responsibilities to not only be understood but also practiced until they can be executed with precision. The real test (game) shows what was really learned and assimilated in practice and if it was learned well enough under simulated conditions to be of real use, in a real game. Trading with real money is where the pressure is and shows our mettle. But without the practice we are basically “shooting in the dark”.
Traders COULD learn alot from Nick Saban and the Crimson Tide but they won’t. They had rather see the Tide fall than learn. So to speak.
¡Roll Tide!
ROFLMAO.
Good point volpri,
I can only say for myself trading sim have saved me alot of money.
I was watching Patriots game the other day. Bill Belicihick rarely get's made, but he got pissed off when someone on defense made an fundamental mistake that kind of cost them the game.
Trading sim is no different, you have to practice your trading plan. It just common sense in my opinion.