Signs that this is hell: "There will be gnashing of teeth"

Good1 said:
Hell As Complete Darkness

If ignorance were equated to darkness, and knowledge equated to light, then i think it's pretty clear that all peoples dwell in darkness.

People live by faith, which always contains, and is contaminated, by ignorance. The reason people believe, is because they just don't know.

It is believed that people can know.......
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Partly right; but really wrong on faith comment . Faith is the title deed-Hebrews 11;1 The Holy Bible. Ever bought much real estate ,lawyer studies title deed?? its much more than a belief when an insurance co, insures title deed. Thanks for your comment; happy thanksgiving+ God bless:cool::cool:
 
murray t turtle said:
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Partly right; but really wrong on faith comment . Faith is the title deed-Hebrews 11;1 The Holy Bible. Ever bought much real estate ,lawyer studies title deed?? its much more than a belief when an insurance co, insures title deed. Thanks for your comment; happy thanksgiving+ God bless:cool::cool:
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Yes, in transactional Christianity, faith is treated as currency.

I honestly don't believe faith is a valid currency in the Land of Knowledge (Heaven).

Faith is to Knowledge what Time is to Eternity. They really cannot coexist.

Transactions, currency, and faith belong to the realm of magic.

The book of Hebrews is actually a grimoire of sorts, spelling out the magic of applying faith to transactions between unlike beings (gods vs persons).

It admits that this world, a world of "substance" (material), is formed by faith, providing it's own evidence for those things the mind hopes for.

As such, any mind caught in this world, and imprisoned in a body, is under a spell of magic.

The "Gospel" is, or ought to be, the dispelling of the original spell that captivates all minds in this world.

It's the "knowledge of Christ" which saves, not faith.

Faith is part of the problem, not the solution.

This explains the friction between gnostic Christianity (the narrow path, knowledge-based) vs. mainstream (the broad path, faith-based) transactional Christianity.

Thanks for your comment.
 
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stu said:
Problem with your theory being, everything you say applies equally to you. It's just as likely therefore that all you believe and say, is mere imagination, not what is real..



Reality does the convincing, not the other way round.
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Reality has it's way of convincing, and faith has it's own way of convincing.

Faith, as mentioned in my previous response to Murray, provides its own evidence.

The evidence it provides is the whole reason we can easily get "lost" in world built on faith.

I would argue reality has the more convincing proofs.

So, those who wish to live by faith must always be on guard against the intrusions of reality.

For that reason, hell is described as a city with big walls and strong gates, posted with watchmen.

Without a constant guard, reality would storm the gates.

The opposite of a constant guard is an INVITATION.

Unlike imagination (unreality), reality does not use force.

It is not anything like "the force" of Star Wars fame. It doesn't force anything.

This would explain why you, a faith-based creature, living in a world built on imagination, are not yet convinced.

The reciprocity of my theory, that everything that is true applies equally to every seemingly separate being, is not a problem for me.

Reciprocity is the solution.

What is true for Jesus, for example, is true for everyone/everything.

If you mean "never the twain shall meet", then yes, we have a communications problem.

I would not be able to prove anything to you, without your invitation.

And visa versa. Faith cannot prove anything to me without my invitation.
 
Good1 said:

What is true for Jesus, for example, is true for everyone/everything.

It's the "knowledge of Christ" which saves, not faith.​
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Yet both those statements necessarily rely upon religious faith, not reality based knowledge.
As a Gnostic I do see how you will need to commingle two distinctly different words into one meaning....
Good1 said:
"but never sufficient to convince reality."
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Unfortunately for your argument, you don't get for things to be one special way for you and another way for everyone else. You having as you call it "knowledge" in a Christ, is fundamentally no different than Murray having a faith in a Christ.
 
stu said:
Yet both those statements necessarily rely upon religious faith, not reality based knowledge.
As a Gnostic I do see how you will need to commingle two distinctly different words into one meaning....

!



Unfortunately for your argument, you don't get for things to be one special way for you and another way for everyone else. You having as you call it "knowledge" in a Christ, is fundamentally no different than Murray having a faith in a Christ.
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If you've never had "knowledge of Christ" your comments are as faith filled as any transactional Christian.

I have experienced the taste of a slice of it. The experience of knowing, even a little, is powerfully influential, able to stop anyone in their tracks, and alter the course of one's direction...for a lifetime.

With the experience, you can tell, by contrast, just how much everything else is backed by faith, and faiths inherent ignorance.

The knowledge then functions as a guiding light until the initial invitation is deepened and extended.

Information will circle around that knowledge like a galaxy of stars. The only stars that matter are the ones that align with the knowledge.

I was given the knowledge that this was not my home. "This" including any other stars, or any other planet. My home is not planetary based. Nor does it reach back through time via re-incarnations, neither through sequential incarnations to any sort of forefathers like Adam and Eve.

I was given to KNOW this, as gently as the sun rises and starts to light up the night sky. In fact, it happened overnight, and dawned on my mind in the morning. I was given this without any book (s).

Christianity circles around this knowlege, pretending to put out light, but does not align with it. And so, I have been guided past the broad mainstream faith-based currency transactional book-based variety of Christanity, which is more associated with Judaism, and Paul the Pharisee, than Jesus, and his knowledge.

25 years later I did find a book that aligned with what I know, and I let myself believe some of the things it explains, even though I don't know it. Other things are simply logical, like the inability for opposites to coexist.

So yes there is a mix of faith, some philosophy (reasoning), but still guided by the light of knowledge.
 
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Good1 said:
If you've never had "knowledge of Christ" your comments are as faith filled as any transactional Christian.
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Sure I've had "knowledge of Christ", certainly not faith filled and not Christian, but I get how your "knowledge of Christ" might appeal to the ego.
The attraction of ideas, convictions and experiences that can make a person feel special over other beings who don't get it like you do.
Unfortunately with thousands of denominations of Christianity-plus, with their own "knowledge of Christ" branding around, there is no good reason to think yours is unique or distinct, nor to be fair, any more meaningful than anyone else's. Ergo it may just be your ego.

Good1 said:
So yes there is a mix of faith, some philosophy (reasoning), but still guided by the light of knowledge.
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It's religion and it's called faith because it's not knowledge.
 
stu said:
Sure I've had "knowledge of Christ", certainly not faith filled and not Christian, but I get how your "knowledge of Christ" might appeal to the ego.
The attraction of ideas, convictions and experiences that can make a person feel special over other beings who don't get it like you do.
Unfortunately with thousands of denominations of Christianity-plus, with their own "knowledge of Christ" branding around, there is no good reason to think yours is unique or distinct, nor to be fair, any more meaningful than anyone else's. Ergo it may just be your ego.



It's religion and it's called faith because it's not knowledge.
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At least you acknowledge that faith is not knowledge. That comes from reasoning, a brand of philosophy.

You can define religion as you like. If it's all about faith then hell is a religion.

What word, then, would you use to describe the work of discernment between faith and knowledge...between imagination and reality?

Tell me about your own "knowledge of Christ" experience.

Indeed, each thinker must come to his own conclusions, on his own, between him/her and what he calls knowledge. You are aware, yes, that mistaking faith for knowledge is a big problem? I would say it is hell's biggest problem.

It's the ego that calls faith, and the observation of faith's evidence, "knowledge".

It's the ego, and it's faith, that enables all the denizens of hell to be special. If you are in hell, and you come to know anything, yes, you too will be special among the faith-filled faithful.

But true knowledge does not come from the ego, which is that mindset/attitude that is driven by the desire to be special. In a world where everyone knows, everyone is equal. You have one go beyond knowledge, to the land of faith, to find special status from anything at all.

So knowledge is not like many flat-earthers who are driven by special status to be members of an elite minority.

You can only know reality, and you can only believe in unreality. Both flat or round earth are unreal, faith-based phenomena.

In a world of knowledge, such (special) things do not exist. I observe a round earth, so I still have a mix of faith and knowedge. With full knowlege, the earth disappears, and all galaxies with it.

My reference to "knowledge of Christ" as what saves, is a generally ignored reference to something the apostate Paul said, among the few things he said that were actually true. Can you name any Christian denominations that pay attention to this distinction, enough to even mention it?

I can say, with the knowedge of Christ, the whole world of hell could disagree with you, and you would not care for their opinion, or your special status.
 
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