Shoulder Training For Natural Bodybuilders

[Baron]

http://nattyornot.com/shoulder-training-natural-bodybuilders/

I just want to state for the record that I can't stand that web site. It's clearly just a personal blog from some unknown person, and no science whatsoever is cited so it's just a lot of opinion from someone that clearly has no knowledge or experience whatsoever. It's not often I say this, but I don't agree with anything that guy says. And why in the world does he care if someone else is natural or not? He'll never have the real answer unless they admit to it so the whole damn thing is pointless.

 

[vanzandt]

I was going to add, for years and years I only did three exercises (never lifted). Running, pushups (with pushup bars varying the spread of my hands)... and the biggest and best of all for the shoulders and lats... behind the neck pull-ups.

If building shoulders is your game.... do pull ups. Vary the distance between your hands for different sets. The wider the grip the better. They're a bitch and they accentuate your natural body mechanics so they are better than trying to force a movement you weren't designed to do. And they work. Key to an upper body V-Shape. Plus they give you true core strength. Farmboy strength if you will.

 

[Trader13]

I hate laterals! It's hard to know if you're really working your muscles or just straining your tendons. And because it's hard to isolate the shoulder muscles with laterals (at least it feels that way to me), you end up doing quick jerk motions to raise heavier weight. I've often wondered if the risk is greater than the benefit, and now this article just gave me the excuse I needed to skip laterals altogether!

 

[Frederick Foresight]

I've always done side and rear laterals just to ensure I had even development in all areas of the shoulders, so I can't say that I noticed any development difference when I replaced the presses with front laterals.

To me, laterals are every bit as difficult as shoulder presses, and probably more miserable now that I think about it. And least with shoulder presses, you can push up some pretty heavy weight. Laterals are not impressive to watch, and because the weight is sitting out on the end of a lever called your arm, they will make you feel like a schoolgirl trying to lift weights for the first time due to the miniscule weight that can be lifted with good form.

I understand your rationale, and it makes sense. Just as you heard popping with your presses, I felt subversive activities going on in my shoulders when I used to do laterals. I stopped doing them entirely in ~2005, when I switched from a 3x/week split routine to twice weekly whole body workouts. (Even then, I was still doing far too much volume at that time, with my 2 workouts each exceeding 2 hours excluding cardio.)

At that time, I even gave up on shoulder presses because they were giving me grief. I had been doing behind the neck presses on a Smith machine. It is only a few years ago that I learned behind the neck presses are injuries waiting to happen. And so, years later, I tried doing front shoulder presses, but they still caused joint pain. It was not until I finally learned that my elbows should not be splayed more than about 45 degrees from my body that it started to come together for me. Previously, they had been at almost 90 degrees. Not exactly a quick study, am I?

I suppose that people with robust and uninjured shoulders can get away with both splaying their elbows, and going behind the neck, but why play chicken with the shoulder gods? I can still do my 2 pulling and 2 pushing exercises (which also work the shoulders), as well as my version of shoulder presses, painlessly and with a full range of motion. I guess all adapt to our individual circumstances, eh?

 

[Frederick Foresight]

Much redundancy with weight lifting and I've never been a fan of muscle specific training for anything other than recovery from injury. That said I do dumbbell curls because, well because huge guns are a must to impress chicks. Guess it all depends what you're looking for. Conditioning and overall strength are my interests.

I hate to be the Gabfly1 in the ointment, but:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ti-Joint_Exercises_during_Resistance_Training

 

[Frederick Foresight]

behind the neck pull-ups.

If building shoulders is your game.... do pull ups. Vary the distance between your hands for different sets. The wider the grip the better.

I love pull ups, I do them pronated and weighted. But I think behind the neck is a mistake. It's an unnatural movement. I've learned to avoid those.

Back exercises (pulling) work the posterior shoulder. I've read, and learned from experience, that the best grip for pronated pull ups is a little wider than shoulder width. More than that and you compromise both your range of motion and your shoulder health.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

I just want to state for the record that I can't stand that web site. It's clearly just a personal blog from some unknown person, and no science whatsoever is cited so it's just a lot of opinion from someone that clearly has no knowledge or experience whatsoever. It's not often I say this, but I don't agree with anything that guy says. And why in the world does he care if someone else is natural or not? He'll never have the real answer unless they admit to it so the whole damn thing is pointless.

Yes, the author, whoever he is, is rather opinionated and doesn't seem to always support his conclusions with any references. I came across his article when I did a search on the need for laterals.

I've come across the site before, and while I don't agree with everything (or much of) what he says, he does occasionally make a good point. I'm not saying the shoulder article is necessarily a good one; I just used it to get the conversation going.

As for why he cares about why someone else is natural or not, I think he made a good point in one of his pieces, which I can't now seem to find. People can do or take whatever they want, but they shouldn't lie about it. Because when they lie, they create a false sense of the naturally possible among the less discerning in the crowd, which sets them up for failure. Also, when a supposedly natural bodybuilder shares his workout routine, other unsuspecting natural lifters think they should follow suit. Differences in genetics notwithstanding, steroids and their equivalents allow for much easier recovery. And so, once again, the naïve follower is set up for failure. In one piece he showed pictures of supposedly "natural" lifters next to previous professional bodybuilders who were obviously using. He also listed their specs: reported height, weight and % body fat, and a few key measurements, if I recall correctly. It was remarkable how close the appearance and the numbers were. And so, irrespective of the fact that steroid users' physiques have a certain undeniable "look," the comparison convincingly concluded that the "naturals" were not quite so natural even to the uninitiated. I think that was a service.