Should we execute drug dealers?

[freealways]

The whole concept is absurd.

O.K. I can go along with that .............................. provided that
any physical damage done to your body doesn't become a burden to society

and further provided that if one chooses to be in a 'state of bliss' and therefore is unable to 'produce' i.e. contribute to society that you aren't entitled to any handouts including use of roads, fire brigade, water, sewerage services, social services support etc.

Unless of course one is contributing (or else is unable to do so because of illness) one shouldn't be entitled to any of the benefits to live in this society.

Under those circumstances perhaps it is O.K. to use drugs freely.

freealways

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from LongShot:

why does the govt have a right to restrict me from ANY drugs or chemical substances natural or manmade?

It is MY body is it not?

Am *I* not the sole arbiter of what goes in MY body??

:-|

(don't tell me what to do, you already said we are thru)

The minute you start using a drug that you can guarantee will NOT:

A) Endanger me or my loved ones or society at large,

B) Cost me tax money to get you rehabilitated,

C) Profit distributors and/or cartels who use violence to enforce their profitability, and

D) Cause you to resort to crime when you run out of money to feed your habit

you are free to ingest as much of it as you like.

 

[Fluidity]

Quote from hapaboy:

I'd invite you to explain how advocating capital punishment for drug dealers is comparable to being a Nazi and/or Communist
[/B]

When you throw out all the noise and get right to the heart of the matter it is essentialy the same thing... To say that those regimes were made up soley of murderous criminals would be naive and miss the mark -- these were everyday Hapaboys that out of a sense of desperation bought into one of the fondest illusions of the human condition -- Utopia. They were sold the road to paradise and they protected this dream soooo fiercely that they ended up paving the road with the bodies of anyone who happened to cause a threat to their 'better tommorrow'. They believed THEY knew what was best for their society the same way as YOU think you know best for ours. They killed and you want to kill. Ahhh belief, has anyword perpetuated more bloodshed than this one? When all was said and done Hapa, when paradise was no closer, these men and women were forced to do either one of two things -- they could claim flatout stupidity, say they got the 'okie doke' and just did not know any better 'Stalin tricked us!' 'Our motives were right!' or they could go the Oedipus route, admit the fact that they had MURDERED and pluck their eyeballs out... 99% went the first route and something tells me you would too!

Happa explain to me what the difference is between Pablo Escobar executing a competitor and you executing a drug dealer. Both killings are motivated by a selfish desire for a 'better tommorrow' no? Pablo wants to kill for money, power and respect -- and your ignorant ass wants to kill to stop drug use, less money spent on drug addicts, etc...

Happa, lets just suppose this law was enacted somehow and the gun was passed to YOU! Would you have any problems shooting a complete stranger in the face?

You are suggesting that we kill out of a selfish desire to make our society a better place and IMO this is cold blooded murder anyway you look at it!

We are not all so fortunate to be as ignorant and as arrogant as you Happa -- some of us are compassionate human beings that do not resort to murder to fix something that we do not like!

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from Fluidity:

When you throw out all the noise and get right to the heart of the matter it is essentialy the same thing... To say that those regimes were made up soley of murderous criminals would be naive and miss the mark -- these were everyday Hapaboys that out of a sense of desperation bought into one of the fondest illusions of the human condition -- Utopia. They were sold the road to paradise and they protected this dream soooo fiercely that they ended up paving the road with the bodies of anyone who happened to cause a threat to their 'better tommorrow'. They believed THEY knew what was best for their society the same way as YOU think you know best for ours. They killed and you want to kill. Ahhh belief, has anyword perpetuated more bloodshed than this one? When all was said and done Hapa, when paradise was no closer, these men and women were forced to do either one of two things -- they could claim flatout stupidity, say they got the 'okie doke' and just did not know any better 'Stalin tricked us!' 'Our motives were right!' or they could go the Oedipus route, admit the fact that they had MURDERED and pluck their eyeballs out... 99% went the first route and something tells me you would too!

Happa explain to me what the difference is between Pablo Escobar executing a competitor and you executing a drug dealer. Both killings are motivated by a selfish desire for a 'better tommorrow' no? Pablo wants to kill for money, power and respect -- and your ignorant ass wants to kill to stop drug use, less money spent on drug addicts, etc...

Happa, lets just suppose this law was enacted somehow and the gun was passed to YOU! Would you have any problems shooting a complete stranger in the face?

You are suggesting that we kill out of a selfish desire to make our society a better place and IMO this is cold blooded murder anyway you look at it!

We are not all so fortunate to be as ignorant and as arrogant as you Happa -- some of us are compassionate human beings that do not resort to murder to fix something that we do not like!

Ah, so I'm still not on Ignore, huh? Remember, Fluidity, that you posted back first. Let there be no mistake that I was quite willing to forget all about you, really, but you've decided to get it on.

First of all, allow me to congratulate you on A) Not swearing at me, and B) Putting much of what you wrote into proper syntax, form, and grammar so that I can at least understand what you are saying before I dismiss it.

'sigh' Anyway, just when I think I've read the stupidest post ever, you go and post another. Fluidity, do yourself and everyone else a favor: disconnect your computer from the Internet.

Yeah, I'm a Nazi/Communist because I advocate ridding the world of drug dealers and distributors who cause untold misery and death all over this country and indeed all over the world. Your argument is predicated upon the supposition that anyone who dreams of a better world is a Nazi and/or Communist simply for dreaming it - never mind the reasoning behind it. As such, Walt Disney, Alexander Graham Bell, Henry Ford, Ben Franklin, George Washington, Albert Einstein, etc., etc. and let's not forget the Dalai Lama, are all goose-stepping Hitler fans because they dreamed of a better world. Your average kid in college is a Nazi because he/she is actually foolish enough to dream that education might get them somewhere in the world. Every single member of our Armed Forces is a Communist for being stupid enough to think that defending our country is somehow vital to the national good. Social workers are total Sieg Heiling Idioten for thinking the work they do helps somebody, and doctors, well, they're the biggest heel-clickin' Hitler-lovin' morons ever for suspecting their work helps mankind.

Fluidity, I'd like to see things from your point of view, I really would, but I can't seem to get my head that far up my ass.

Finally, learn from your parents' mistake - PLEASE - and use birth control.

 

[tampa]

Quote from marketsurfer:

legalization is the only way to solve the supposed drug problem. executing dealers will only make the surviving dealers stronger and richer. most drug users are not addicts, addicts need medical help not jail. legalization does not mean a free for all for drugs. mankind has always sought ways to intoxicate him/herself, and no laws or punishments are going to stop this basic nature.



economics 101,

surfer

Econ 102

a) A "fix" costs$50. The druggie has no money. You have a $1,000 stereo in your car. The druggie rips it off, sells it for $50, and get's his fix,

b) Drugs are legal. The cost of a "fix" is now $5. The druggie has no money. You have a $1,ooo stereo in your car. The druggie rips it off, and sells it to buy drugs.

...don't ee much difference here.
__________________

 

[Fluidity]

Quote from hapaboy:



Ah, so I'm still not on Ignore, huh? Remember, Fluidity, that you posted back first. Let there be no mistake that I was quite willing to forget all about you, really, but you've decided to get it on.

First of all, allow me to congratulate you on A) Not swearing at me, and B) Putting much of what you wrote into proper syntax, form, and grammar so that I can at least understand what you are saying before I dismiss it.

'sigh' Anyway, just when I think I've read the stupidest post ever, you go and post another. Fluidity, do yourself and everyone else a favor: disconnect your computer from the Internet.

Yeah, I'm a Nazi/Communist because I advocate ridding the world of drug dealers and distributors who cause untold misery and death all over this country and indeed all over the world. Your argument is predicated upon the supposition that anyone who dreams of a better world is a Nazi and/or Communist simply for dreaming it - never mind the reasoning behind it. As such, Walt Disney, Alexander Graham Bell, Henry Ford, Ben Franklin, George Washington, Albert Einstein, etc., etc. and let's not forget the Dalai Lama, are all goose-stepping Hitler fans because they dreamed of a better world. Your average kid in college is a Nazi because he/she is actually foolish enough to dream that education might get them somewhere in the world. Every single member of our Armed Forces is a Communist for being stupid enough to think that defending our country is somehow vital to the national good. Social workers are total Sieg Heiling Idioten for thinking the work they do helps somebody, and doctors, well, they're the biggest heel-clickin' Hitler-lovin' morons ever for suspecting their work helps mankind.

Fluidity, I'd like to see things from your point of view, I really would, but I can't seem to get my head that far up my ass.

Finally, learn from your parents' mistake - PLEASE - and use birth control.

Hapa that was weak man...

I asked you two very direct questions that you convientely ignored, if you want the pleasure of making me look like a fool then you will have to go and answer them

First off Hapa you are utterly confused, does your entire knowledge of how this shit goes down come directly from an afterschool special? Drugdealers are not forcing anyone to DO drugs. They are not responsible for a smackheads misery man -- the smack head is. By you pointing a finger soley at them you are taking the blame off the real cause which is the DRUG USER!
Oxy cottin is in a rage right now, many have OD'd on the shit, many are hooked, the shit is as strong as heroin. Is the pharmacist responsible for that misery? Did the company who makes and supplies this drug responsible for all the appleheads taking it? You know now that we are on it, I'd say at the very minimum 1/4 of the drug users out there are addicted to some sort of legal drug that they secure from doctors... should we start slicing off their heads too? Vikatin, Xanex, Oxy-codone, etc etc.. should we start killing the dirty politicians that are getting kickbacks in their campaign funds? how about all those pos cops that get paid to look the other way? I grew up right next to Philly and Camden -- there was no drug dealers in our schools, if we wanted something we went right there and got it from complete strangers at a set in broad daylight while the cops simply turned their heads... wtf man all those sets over there are paying the cops.. they sit in the middle of front street in broad daylight and sell smack to lil white kids from the burbs! so lets kill all them too!

Secondly, how did you completely miss the point of my commie rant? Bell, Franklin, Social Workers, Walt the man Disney? Bro these people were not killing in-order to make a 'better tommorrow'. There is nothing wrong with dreaming it, but when you start to play GOD and delude yourself into believing that you are moraly superior and have the right to execute a man that is not directly threatening your own existence you turn into a murderer. I mean it really is as simple as that. The armed forces sometimes do murder in the name of 'patriotism' and sometimes they kill out of defense -- this is an imperfect world.

overall bro I'm pretty tired of this lil convo, your thinking is so arrogant and yet sooooo simplistc and ignorant that it is appaling

I'm done with this thread now and nothing i say is worth anything anyway, go run around with this mentality, live your life in a state of illusion if thats what you choose to do, blame it all on the devil and those evil drugdealers if thats what helps you cope with the fact that Milton's Utopia is unnatainable...

have a nice life man...

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from Fluidity:

overall bro I'm pretty tired of this lil convo, your thinking is so arrogant and yet sooooo simplistc and ignorant that it is appaling

I'm done with this thread now and nothing i say is worth anything anyway, go run around with this mentality, live your life in a state of illusion if thats what you choose to do, blame it all on the devil and those evil drugdealers if thats what helps you cope with the fact that Milton's Utopia is unnatainable...

have a nice life man...

Promises, promises. This isn't the first time you've sworn off further exchanges with me...

Something happened between your last post and this one. The previous one was basically legible, while this one appears to have been typed while under the influence....

Anyway, you have obviously not read my posts in their entirety, for if you had you wouldn't have written (I use the term loosely) much of the above. Actually, I take that back. You probably still would have.... Anyway, I am for treatment. I've said that many times. I'm not about wasting drug dealers and ignoring the addicts.... And that you experienced corrupt cops in Philly while chillin' wit da boyz in whatever set doesn't make you anymore an expert than I am for experiencing corrupt cops in Bolivia and seeing some of the international/cartel side of things. And you've avoided the many questions I've posed time and time again. As a matter of fact, up until very recently your posts have been nothing but insults, which I've been happy to oblige you with in return.

I'd go further into it but it really isn't worth it anymore to argue with you. You think I'm a blood-thirsty Nazi and/or Communist playing God, and nothing I say is going to make you change your mind. I think you're an illiterate oaf who can do nothing but swear, posture, and offer nothing as far as solutions (at least lucidly).

If this really is goodbye, no tears here. Bro.

 

[rs7]

Quote from tampa:



Econ 102

a) A "fix" costs$50. The druggie has no money. You have a $1,000 stereo in your car. The druggie rips it off, sells it for $50, and get's his fix,

b) Drugs are legal. The cost of a "fix" is now $5. The druggie has no money. You have a $1,ooo stereo in your car. The druggie rips it off, and sells it to buy drugs.

...don't ee much difference here.
__________________

Tampa, strong point and a tough one to argue.

But for arguments sake, what if the cost being $5 instead of $50 makes the druggie less desperate. Maybe he now can plan ahead and not be so compelled to get together the $50. 'Cause, he still has $45 left from his last heist (staying with your premise).

So now he is more patient. He bides his time and can go ten times longer before his next stereo theft. Maybe he can find someone that will give him $200 instead of $50. So now, instead of getting one fix per theft, he can get 40. This gives him more time still. So he shops around and starts to get bids of $300, $400, maybe more.

Now not being consumed with where his next "fix" is coming from, he has some money in his pockets. Well he's far too high to get a real job yet his time is more plentiful.

So he hires a few of his fellow addict friends, and they organize into a stereo theft ring.

Money is pouring in. More money than is required to buy "legal" drugs. Then it occurs to the brighter addicts among them, that they are not breaking any laws by using or buying the drugs, just breaking laws in how they are obtaining the money to get them. Their success has let them grow as entrepreneurs. So they apply their experience to practical business, and decide to legitimize their operation. They start buying and selling stereos on Ebay, or pawn shops.

Now, there is no crime. Now the addicts are paying income tax, and providing employment.

Anything is possible my friend.

Of course, in the end, I agree with you Tampa. A junkie is a junkie, and sadly usually beyond help without outside intervention. But my point was only this: We can debate these issues forever. Because debating and arguing are very different. I don't argue with you Tampa....there is nothing to argue about. And I appreciate that you could probably make a better case for legalization than I have if you were so inclined.

I took a stand early on in this thread. As for the issues discussed, I have no super strong opinions one way or the other (except the capital punishment issue....I am strongly opposed).

So my response to you was more in the spirit of staying consistent. I do NOT disagree with you. I can't. Because I truly don't know what decriminalization of drugs would mean in the real world. Not for the pathetic users who lift stereos to support their habits.

Besides, the guy that steals a stereo is not the criminal that scares me (as long as I am not in the car).

It is not these pathetic addicts that are making our cities and our streets (and our society as a whole) more dangerous to any real great degree. It is the dealers and suppliers and smugglers that kill for not just the money (yes, an occasional mugging for $50 in drug money ends with a killing), but they kill for the power....the control of the drugs on our streets. This alone is a compelling argument to decriminalize drugs.

Crimes committed to obtain $5, or $50, will never be as severe as crimes to control billions of dollars worth of drug trade.

Peace,
rs7

 

[rs7]

Quote from Fluidity:



Happa explain to me what the difference is between Pablo Escobar executing a competitor and you executing a drug dealer. Both killings are motivated by a selfish desire for a 'better tomorrow' no? Pablo wants to kill for money, power and respect --

Speaking for Hapa, I could point out one pretty major difference.

If Hapaboy executed a drug dealer, (on his own), he would be hunted down as a renegade vigilante. If Pablo Escobar executed a competitor, he would be sought after by a new cult of religious zealots, since he has been dead for 10 years and would be seen as the Second Coming of whatever brand of evil his followers would brand him.

Other than that? Same difference.

Peace,
rs7

 

[Fluidity]

Quote from rs7:



Speaking for Hapa, I could point out one pretty major difference.

If Hapaboy executed a drug dealer, (on his own), he would be hunted down as a renegade vigilante. If Pablo Escobar executed a competitor, he would be sought after by a new cult of religious zealots, since he has been dead for 10 years and would be seen as the Second Coming of whatever brand of evil his followers would brand him.

Other than than? Same difference.

Peace,
rs7

Yes it may be a little difficult for Pablo to kill someone! Rs you like to read, pick yourself up a copy of "Killing Pablo" I am sure you will enjoy it...

PEACE and good-trading my friend...