Should we execute drug dealers?
- Thread starter hapaboy
- Start date
Hapaboy....you ask good questions of my post.
Tough questions! So I hope I can address them somewhat adequately.
First, of course, NOTHING is "that simple", so yes, I obviously generalized and over simplified many issues.
But let's start with the question "would cheaper drugs really reduce crime"....Yes, I believe that is an absolute truth. Drug addicts do not commit crimes because they are high on drugs. They commit crimes to get the money they need to support their habits. Are there exceptions? Sure. We all hear about the crazed PCP users who go berserk and overpower their victims, and don't feel bullets (?) and all this. But the vast majority of crimes are committed by addicts that have, for example, no jobs due to their use of drugs, and therefore need to rob and steal and burglarize and commit street crimes to get the money they need to support their multi- hundred dollar a day habits.
You say: "Wouldn't it just make more drugs available to more people and create even more masses of addicts who would go on to cause higher rates of crime?"
My response to this is NO! Why would they commit crimes if not for the need for the money to get drugs? Do you think that drug addicts get high and feel the need to go commit crimes while under the influence of drugs? I think it is the opposite. When they are under the influence, they are harmless to others (for the most part). They are either unconscious or incapable of going out, let alone going out with the intention of committing crimes. Drugs alone do not stimulate criminal behavior for the most part. Again, it is the need for money to obtain drugs that leads to drug related crime.
You ask me: "Furthermore, you're assuming that cheap and legal drugs would lead to the addicts "being dead soon anyway." Are you thus in effect promoting a means for mass overdoses? If so, you have to eliminate the treatment of addicts to get them to overdose, don't you? Would the public, and especially the supposedly more compassionate liberal left, support non-treatment and in effect just let the addicts kill themselves?"
No, I am not "promoting" the means for "mass overdoses". But the ultimate end for the vast majority of heroine and crack addicts is, unfortunately, death. I know I came off a bit harsh and cold. It was not my intent. I truly think that education and the availability of rehab programs should be made MORE available. I would think that if an addict was willing to go through a de-tox program, it would be a lot cheaper for society to try and save these poor souls by paying for these rehabilitation programs than to keep them in jail. And remember, many drug abusers are NOT violent threats to society. There are many addicts that are victims of their own weakness and the easy availability of the drugs that ruin their lives. Many are white collar workers, housewives, etc. Not criminals that are threats to society. So decriminalization of drugs would free up a lot of financial resources that could be used for rehabilitation and detox treatment rather than prison and court and police spending to fight an unwinnable war on drugs.
You ask:"Would the public, and especially the supposedly more compassionate liberal left, support non-treatment and in effect just let the addicts kill themselves?"
I think the just the opposite. Without repeating myself here more than necessary, again, better to spend the money on treatment than on punishment and imprisonment and getting the unfortunate side effect of the hardening of "criminals" (many of whom are guilty of only possession) that occurs in prison. So the incarceration of these people leads to more harm than good over the long run. Cure them, if they are willing. Jailing them does not "cure" them, it makes them worse, not better. There is not much "correctional" behavior achieved in our "correctional facilities" (prisons).
Bottom line is this. We have a budget to fight the "war on drugs" Where is this money best spent? So far, the war is not being won. Maybe another approach is due. And as I stated in the earlier post, legalization of drugs would have the side benefit of taking huge sums of money away from the drug lords that are our enemies. Or that finance our enemies.
Our economy is so badly effected by the illegal drug trade it is shameful. The amount of money that is drained from our countrie's GDP into illicit drugs is very significant. And the money wasted on enforcing unenforceable policies just adds to the wasteful use of our tax dollars. No good comes from drugs. And no good comes from the wasted money poured into the fight that has been a losing one for the past 40 or so years. There has to be a better way.
Maybe decriminalization is not the ideal solution. But I don't think making drug dealing a capital crime is either. When the "Rockefeller Law" was implemented in NY, it led to more violent crime. The law required (I believe) mandatory life sentences for drug dealers. This led to more desperate attempts by cornered offenders to shoot their way out. Better to kill a cop than to face life in prison.
There are no easy answers. Certainly a death penalty for drug dealers would have devastating results during the attempted arrests (for the same reasons as cited above in regard to the Rockefeller Laws). Capital punishment would be even worse than mandatory life sentences insofar as making suspects more dangerous. More desperate.
As I said, there are no easy answers.
Peace,
Rs7That is quite true.
Each human controls his own destiny.
And I think that in itself is the problem.
It is too much responsibility.
We need to make taking drugs unacceptable behavior.
That is at the root of the problem.
It seems cool, and ok.
Unless you see what happens to addicts.
How short and pointless their lives can be.
All the medical and social problems they have as they age.
If they are lucky and do age.
Marijuana gives you cancer just like cigarettes.
Destroys your heart and your brain just like alchohol.
I know this from experience. Not a book.
Taking drugs for "fun" pisses me off.
Stupidity pisses me off.
Killing a murderer is fine with me.
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth.
But addicts need help.
Quote from daniel_m:
you know, we could just shoot the addicts too.
obviously it would never happen, but just think how effective it would be!
after seeing five or six executions, tell me everyone wouldn't be shit scared of touching a drug again, addicted or not?
If ur statement of seeing plenty addicts in ur life is true, you would know that the above would not in any way affect an addicts decision. Some would rather be dead, than live in the hell they know.
no they wouldn't cubano. if they truly did, they'd just go and kill themselves.
and in case you didn't get it, i was obviously only kidding with the above.
the serious point of it is, however, that if we truly think it is undesirable for members of our society to engage in taking mind altering drugs, then don't you think that after having caught them doing it, by just waving it off as an 'alternative lifestyle choice' we are saying the exact opposite? namely, that taking drugs is really ok?
if you call something 'bad behavior' but then don't punish it when it occurs, the obvious message is that it's not really bad, isn't it?
personally, i couldn't give a fuck what someone decides to do with their lives. the thing that REALLY PISSES ME OFF, though, is when *I* end up having to foot the bill for some other mo fuckers irresponsible behavior. and with drugs, that means having to spend my money rehabing the piece of shit etc etc
it's like, you are lost in the desert with three other survivors. you each have a bottle of water. one you decides to drink his entire portion on the first day. a couple days later he is dying of thirst. so now what? i'm forced to go without just because that asshole didn't consider the consequances of his actions? that just riles me up!
Drugs are a slow suicide.
They cause the apathy of not caring whether you live or die.
All addicts care for is that they are high.
I agree.....pisses me off I have to pay for it.
This is another reason we need to tighten up the borders.
Catch more of this crap before it gets here in the first place.
Drug money supports terrorism.
Enough said.
They cause the apathy of not caring whether you live or die.
All addicts care for is that they are high.
I agree.....pisses me off I have to pay for it.
This is another reason we need to tighten up the borders.
Catch more of this crap before it gets here in the first place.
Drug money supports terrorism.
Enough said.
This is a separate thought.
I think there is a MEDICINAL use for marijuana, heroin and cocaine and man made drugs.
For that it should not be illegal. It needs to be prescribed like any other drug.
A lot of the addicts would be able to feel good if they took the proper dosage of an antidepressant. And be able to function in society.
Hey, I take prescriptions for all sorts of stuff. But there is potential harm in all of them that needs to be monitored by a doctor.
I think there is a MEDICINAL use for marijuana, heroin and cocaine and man made drugs.
For that it should not be illegal. It needs to be prescribed like any other drug.
A lot of the addicts would be able to feel good if they took the proper dosage of an antidepressant. And be able to function in society.
Hey, I take prescriptions for all sorts of stuff. But there is potential harm in all of them that needs to be monitored by a doctor.
