Should we execute drug dealers?

[freealways]

>>I do have a visceral hatred for drug dealers. Don't you? <<

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Dgabriel responded : "Only a mild dislike, unless they step on their stuff too much. "

I can understand what you are saying if it means : "I guess when looking at a drug dealer as a fellow human being I have only a mild dislike.

But what about the harm they do, the violence, the sucking into their web of others ? Do you care only a little bit for that too ?

Then you continued : "I don't care if you hate drug dealers, I really don't. What I do care about is society's utter failure to deal intelligently and effectively with drugs."

Education starts off at home. We as a population make up society. We cannot wash our hands off the responsibility alltogether and blame it on the government.

In fact it looks to me as if there is someone in your family who is involved in drugs and that that possibly may be the reason why you are so desperately trying to whitewash the drug dealer's role.

Drug dealers are despicable and the world will be better off without them. The alarming point is that users often turn into either dealers or thiefs and/or robbers.

In the end they become a burden on society.

freealways

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from freealways:

>>I do have a visceral hatred for drug dealers. Don't you? <<

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Dgabriel responded : "Only a mild dislike, unless they step on their stuff too much. "

I can understand what you are saying if it means : "I guess when looking at a drug dealer as a fellow human being I have only a mild dislike.

But what about the harm they do, the violence, the sucking into their web of others ? Do you care only a little bit for that too ?

Then you continued : "I don't care if you hate drug dealers, I really don't. What I do care about is society's utter failure to deal intelligently and effectively with drugs."

Education starts off at home. We as a population make up society. We cannot wash our hands off the responsibility alltogether and blame it on the government.

In fact it looks to me as if there is someone in your family who is involved in drugs and that that possibly may be the reason why you are so desperately trying to whitewash the drug dealer's role.

Drug dealers are despicable and the world will be better off without them. The alarming point is that users often turn into either dealers or thiefs and/or robbers.

In the end they become a burden on society.

freealways

free, I wouldn't waste your time quoting dgabriel. He doesn't care what you think. He really doesn't.

 

[miniTrdr]

Quote from freealways:

>>I The alarming point is that users often turn into either dealers or thiefs and/or robbers.

In the end they become a burden on society.

Bush did coke
Clinton didn't inhale pot

looks like drugs can lead to the presidency. if they are thieves/robbers and a burden on society depends on who you talk to.

 

[rs7]

Quote from bobcathy1:

I think we should legalize drugs. Tax them just like cigarettes and alchohol.

I do not drink or smoke or do drugs. That is my choice.

I think this would eliminate a lot of crime. And all the hardcore addicts will kill themselves with abundance. And there will be no crimes to commit. Just a thought

This is the logical solution.

Those who want drugs will get them no matter what.

Those who want drugs will also generally not contribute to society. But as long as they are not killing and robbing for drug money, who cares if they are too high to function? If they kill themselves, that is sad, but it beats having them kill others to support their habits.

Furthermore, if drugs were legalized, it would eliminate the vast majority of crime, and free up enormous financial resources now wasted on enforcing the drug laws and in the cost involved in imprisoning all the drug offenders. All in a "drug war" that is a losing battle.

I am with Cathy on this. I don't smoke, and I can't stand being around people who do. I do occasionally drink socially, but I can't stand being around people who drink too much, and I especially am sickened by being around people who are drunk.

But to put them in jail? Sure, put the public drunks in jail overnight. Then cut them loose. As we do.

We could do the same with publicly drugged out losers like we do with the drunks. But why waste the money keeping them in jail? What purpose does that serve?

And giving incentive to make the suppliers of illegal drugs rich? What a waste of our resources. Just as prohibition created rich mobsters and more crime, today's drug laws are counter-productive.

If you legalized drugs, they would be cheap. So virtually no crime. If you legalized drugs, the heroine addicts and crack addicts would all be dead soon anyway. So there is one problem solved. Sad for their families, but no great loss to society.

If you legalize drugs, there would be no almost no need for prisons. And the huge expense they create. Sure, there would still be murderers, but hardly any street crime. We would still need jails, but not as a growth industry like it is now.

There would still be white collar crime, but even that would likely be diminished.

If we legalized drugs, I don't think that we would realize any great returns on the taxation of drugs (maybe some on marijuana), but we would sure save a lot of manpower on our border patrol's efforts to curb the drug smuggling trade. And we could use all that manpower to keep our borders more secure from terror threats than to waste their time and money and effort sniffing for drugs.

And perhaps the greatest benefit of legalizing drugs would be the dead stop of the flow of such huge amounts of money that gets into the hands of the murderous drug lords. Who often find alliances with terrorists. A natural fit.

It is absolutely true that terrorism is supported in large part by the drug trade.

Look at where the drugs come from. Afghanistan, Iran, China, Columbia, Lebanon, Burma, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, etc. Not the places that contribute to freedom and opportunity for the average citizen. (with some exceptions certainly).

Panama was a classic example of a nation actually run by a drug lord. It is no better, maybe worse in Columbia. Millions of innocent people living in fear of of the drug cartels. They have so much money and so much firepower to protect their empires, that they can bring legitimate government to it's knees. They assassinate politicians, and judges as a normal course of events.

Without the drug money, these cartels would whither away. And places like Columbia would be prosperous countries instead of hotbeds of terror.

Peace,
rs7

 

[hapaboy]

RS7 - peace back atcha!

You make a good argument, and I really want to believe it. I really do! I've proposed capital punishment on dealers/cartel members/distributors not out of a bloodlust, a need to simply argue and insult others, or because I'm a "tough guy" as I've been dubbed, nor because of a so-called infatuation with "Hollywood" and supposed "newspaper propaganda." I've proposed it because of a frustration that nothing has worked so far and it seems like a last resort, albeit extreme. I simply don't know what else will work.

So here you have made a good argument for legalizing drugs. Others have echoed your sentiment, perhaps not as coherently, but it's obvious they feel the same way.

BUT, let me ask this: IS IT REALLY THAT SIMPLE?

if drugs were legalized, it would eliminate the vast majority of crime

If you legalized drugs, they would be cheap. So virtually no crime. If you legalized drugs, the heroine addicts and crack addicts would all be dead soon anyway. So there is one problem solved. Sad for their families, but no great loss to society.

Are those truly accurate and realistic statements?

As I've stated before, would cheaper drugs really reduce crime? Wouldn't it just make more drugs available to more people and create even more masses of addicts who would go on to cause higher rates of crime?

Furthermore, you're assuming that cheap and legal drugs would lead to the addicts "being dead soon anyway." Are you thus in effect promoting a means for mass overdoses? If so, you have to eliminate the treatment of addicts to get them to overdose, don't you? Would the public, and especially the supposedly more compassionate liberal left, support non-treatment and in effect just let the addicts kill themselves?

Which is the lesser of the two evils, letting the addicts overdose on cheap smack/crack/whatever without trying to save them or executing the dealers/pushers/distributors? Aren't the addicts, pitiful though they may be, victims themselves? Aren't the dealers/pushers/distributors the bad guys here as they knowingly sell a product that will only lead to addiction, death, crime, and misery for the addicts and their loved ones?

Finally, many have pointed to the Netherlands as an example. However, hard drugs are not even legal there. Cannabis-based drugs are, but not the hard stuff. And the legalization of the softer stuff is complimented with extensive treatment. So the Netherlands can't be pointed to as a blueprint for your proposal.

I look forward to your response and non-hysterical feedback from others.

Thank you for the ample food for thought.

 

[freealways]

Gee Minibrain, that was a real well thought out piece of work you posted.

freealways

 

[daniel_m]

Quote from dgabriel:


Crack is some bad shit. But I would rather take some interdiction funding and put it toward rehab for the crackhead. And eliminate the netherworld aspect of the crack trade.

rehab for the crackhead? WTF?

it's not bad enough that the stupid freakin SOB puts himself in that position in the first place -- and it certainly WAS HIS DECISION -- but now WE have to foot the bill to look after his sorry fuckin ass?

what's worse is that rehab is just throwing more money down the drain. it's not like that crap works. have u ever known many addicts? i have. dozens and dozens. do you think these jerkoffs actually want any help? not on your life! (the vast majority don't, anyway). usually the only reason they're in rehab is because of legal requirements. and the ones that went on their own accord are willing to "give it a shot..." (meaning, i'll try it, so long as i don't really have to DO anything -- the exact same lack of personal responsibility that got them into their predicament in the first place..)

You have identified a source of desease, decay, addiction and great economic cost. While Alcohol, Nicotine, and bad food lack the the criminal element, they share all these other fundamental elements found in drug abuse and addiction.

you have a point with the 'bad food', but barely. if you can't see the difference between selling what has been regarded as normal human diet for the past, i don't know, 6 millenia and selling pyscho-active, mood altering drugs then i really can't help you..
besides, how many people turn to crime to finance their bacon and eggs habit?

 

[daniel_m]

as long as we're reluctant to make imprisonment SUCH a scary experience (once you've been in, you'll never, ever, ever, ever wanna go back), as long as we're giving inmates a slap on the wrist with the Four Seasons Penitentiary treatment, legalization appears to be the only hope...

 

[ElCubano]

Quote from bobcathy1:

Their mother did not teach them any better I suppose?

Why is this not a fair statement?...Well, because a mother can teach their kids right from wrong and be a great parent and still end up with a drug addict son......

 

[Fluidity]

Quote from hapaboy:



Um, who the hell are you?

I am Publias the one legged monkey -- wtf does it matter who I am?

This mentality that this is a 'war', that somehow we can beat drug use into submission, that we as a nation can exert force to supress a humans natural desire to escape and intensify their own suffering... As long as self-pitty, ignorance, apathy, insecurity, feeble mindedness, etc, etc are still in vogue amongst humans (and rest assured they will be) then drugs such as crack and smack will be in demand... And long as a mans worth is measured by how fat his wallet is, the whips and mansions one posseses, or the amount of power and respect one demands -- then their will be someone to supply the death that these souls want to shoot in thier arms, suck through a pipe, or sniff up their noses... I have news for you Hapa, drug dealers are no more responsible for drug use than the devil is responsible for all of mankinds 'evil' doings... The evil drug-dealers did not destroy your friends family YOUR FRIEND DID and as long America as a nation wants to stir muddy water in an attempt to somehow make it clear then we will perpetuate a long line of Pablo Escobars and the like... Pablo did not come out of the thin air -- it was natures way of laughing at our ignorance... While what a drug dealer and a drug user strive for may be different -- what makes them strive is essentialy the same... You want to stop all drug use then create a happy-pain free pill for the human condition... South America needs a demand for their # 1 export the same way as the middle east needs one for theirs...