Should I stop day trading?

Quote from trickshot:



The reason why trading was so profitable a few years ago was due to the high volatility and very high "tradeable" range, it made the lower time frames work like the higher time frames. What usually takes days or even weeks to develop can happen in one day, I could easily risk 2 pts to make 20 pts even if it was just an intraday trade, comms, slippage and spreads become irrelevant in these situations.

I rarely see someone who understand that point.
 
It is not a few years ago and no one can now pop into the busisiness and make easy money. That said, there were 4 tick ES scalpers trading in size then and there are 4 tick ES scalpers trading in size today. Algos and hi frequency demanded that they adjust ... and the did. A membership that cuts costs dramatically is of course, at some point, a natural progression but that is simply cutting your cloth to measure. That's not so much a decision as it is putting one foot in front of another as volume increases. Great scalpers have a great deal to overcome ... mostly the spread as commisions are small at some volume point. But those near the top of the food chain do overcome it and get their six tick moves for a net four. And they do it multiple times a day with astonishing win rates.

Nowere in my post did I suggest it was easy but those that can and do truly master a skill set can accomplish what most believe to be impossible. I wasn't equating a 400 tick profit in one contract with a 4 tick ES trade on a hundred lot; I was suggesting that the 4 ticks was far superior for those that are in that business. I know that at least 95% of those that read this will shake their heads and think it is just naivete speaking and I surely understand that point of view and you are entitled to your opinon.

Also, I wasn't a proponent of mastering the small ES scalp. I talked primarily about trading CL because that is, in my opinion, where the 10 tick scalper has the best opportunity. Again, I know that my thoughts here will not be taken seriously but c'est la vie.


Quote from trickshot:

A 4 tick profit on 100 contracts isnt the same thing as a 400 tick profit on one contract, far from it. The smaller your profit targets the worse you are affected by spreads (which is 1 tick, or a whopping 25% of your profit target if you are targeting only 4 ticks), slippage (could be a disaster if you are holding a huge position and the market suddenly spikes) and commissions, no retail trader can overcome such incredibly high odds in the long run, its suicide.

Besides, the HFTs already dominate these time frames, they have a clear advantage over retail on the lower time frames so good luck competing with them.

The reason why trading was so profitable a few years ago was due to the high volatility and very high "tradeable" range, it made the lower time frames work like the higher time frames. What usually takes days or even weeks to develop can happen in one day, I could easily risk 2 pts to make 20 pts even if it was just an intraday trade, comms, slippage and spreads become irrelevant in these situations.

There is still reasonable range and volatility in commodities and fx, but imo those instruments dont trend very well on the lower time frames. Massive price spikes that reverses almost immediately are very common on instruments like GC or CL, its too whipsawy for my liking, though I think it is definitely possible to develop strategies to trade them profitably because there is gd range and volatility.
 
I am down for the year 0.4 R. And swing trading only. First/previous 2 years with this method did pretty well.

Strange that my equity oscillated this year within minisculus range minus 0.8 R and + 0.2 R, where R is risk per trade, basically only scratches.

I hope this is how bad year looks :)
 
Quote from trickshot:

A 4 tick profit on 100 contracts isnt the same thing as a 400 tick profit on one contract, far from it. The smaller your profit targets the worse you are affected by spreads (which is 1 tick, or a whopping 25% of your profit target if you are targeting only 4 ticks), slippage (could be a disaster if you are holding a huge position and the market suddenly spikes) and commissions, no retail trader can overcome such incredibly high odds in the long run, its suicide.

Besides, the HFTs already dominate these time frames, they have a clear advantage over retail on the lower time frames so good luck competing with them.

The reason why trading was so profitable a few years ago was due to the high volatility and very high "tradeable" range, it made the lower time frames work like the higher time frames. What usually takes days or even weeks to develop can happen in one day, I could easily risk 2 pts to make 20 pts even if it was just an intraday trade, comms, slippage and spreads become irrelevant in these situations.

There is still reasonable range and volatility in commodities and fx, but imo those instruments dont trend very well on the lower time frames. Massive price spikes that reverses almost immediately are very common on instruments like GC or CL, its too whipsawy for my liking, though I think it is definitely possible to develop strategies to trade them profitably because there is gd range and volatility.

A few years ago in ES had abnormal price action of range expansion, what some view as tradeable, I saw it as a time of not tradeable for methods I use. ES if one goes back ten years can easily see it is a market that chops a great deal and HFT only has brief times of happening. HFT has a much bigger times of happening in Crude oil and Gold. I am much more thankful that ES has returned to what it generally does, herky jerky.

For me, singles and doubles are done for under 60 minute timeframes to remain consistent in most futures. For homeruns I have to use weekly/daily charts. I applaud those who can get homeruns in smaller timeframes, but for my personality, I rather seek making consistent profits each day which allows confidence to throw size at it.
 
Quote from NoDoji:

I agree and I'm not one of those people.


Not to worry, there are various proficiency levels. Employing the most basic of position strategies can yield a fair return.

The doctrine: Let the market 'do the work'.

At the retail level, the subconscious mind requires a 'job'. Speculation is not, and never will be, a job.

Do not be lured into thinking this, especially by the unscrupulous types that plague this industry (vendors).
 
Quote from magnet:

1) for the last 2 years volatility has crashed, you only need to look at the vix index to see that. As a result short term day traders who rely on volatility in their setups and trades have suffered. This makes complete sense. Especially for those who traded the last 15 years where for 80% of this time there has been extreme volatility.

It makes sense only if you do mean-reversion. If you are an intraday trend-follower you should make a lot. Just look at the chart Bob111 posted. It refutes your position.

Quote from magnet:

behind this volatility crash has been the fed. ... This just shows that the market is no longer free and old adages of supply and demand no longer apply. It is in fact a controlled market and the fed continually press the off button whenever volatility increases.

The Fed is responsible for price stability and volatility is risk. The Fed is not responsible for trader losses neither decides based on trader objectives. Trading is speculation, zero-sum game.

Quote from magnet:

3) the markets controlled by the fed are the traditional bond market and equities. These markets are therefore to be avoided on a daily basis. The only time u should be looking to trade these markets are if you happen to see a big support or resistance level. You trade it once and get out for some profit and get out immediately if your wrong. No longer can you trade these intraday all day.

Again only if you look at mean-reversion. Many intraday traders who follow the trend are making tons of money but not because they are intraday but because this market goes straight up.

Quote from magnet:

4). The markets still free from fed influence to an extent are commodities like gold, and oil and fx markets. The fed doesn't directly control these markets. Making these products smoother and tradable intraday.

hmmm. I see. But 99.99% of intraday forex traders lose money. The same is true with futures intraday traders. There only the masters win and they are statistical outliers. You should read this and do some statistical work before you trade intraday again. Not even forex swing trading is profitable for most. You cannot profit when you trade against the market makers unless you are a master, in which case they will realize it, assign you to a desk and maybe shut down your account like they did to a friend some time ago...

.
 
Quote from Handle123:

A few years ago in ES had abnormal price action of range expansion, what some view as tradeable, I saw it as a time of not tradeable for methods I use. ES if one goes back ten years can easily see it is a market that chops a great deal and HFT only has brief times of happening. HFT has a much bigger times of happening in Crude oil and Gold. I am much more thankful that ES has returned to what it generally does, herky jerky.

For me, singles and doubles are done for under 60 minute timeframes to remain consistent in most futures. For homeruns I have to use weekly/daily charts. I applaud those who can get homeruns in smaller timeframes, but for my personality, I rather seek making consistent profits each day which allows confidence to throw size at it.

That is because for you the mean makes you money in longer time frame, and the variance makes you money for under 60 minutes. So herky jerky makes sense for you: Herky=mean, Jerky=variance. You are an investor who occasionally gets money from jerks under 60 minutes. You need to state what % of you is a trader, but we know you are 100% investor (not counting leverage). There is no contradiction in being 100% investor, and at the same time a % trader. There are also other jerks you could make money from. They are at a higher time frame. You know they exist, because you see it from time to time in your account equity retreats. You need the secret formula to get those jerks as well. You never showed me your equity, so if my vision of it is correct, then I am "seeing" it without you showing it to me.
 
Quote from stock777:

The ones that understood aren't around to be seen.

You are still around, I am still around, and the guy who posted is still around.:)

Maybe you mean to say: those who understood shouldn't be around here.
 
Quote from tradingjournals:

You are still around, I am still around, and the guy who posted is still around.:)

Maybe you mean to say: those who understood shouldn't be around here.

There is always something new to learn. I wouldn't be surprised if some well-known hedge managers are members here and we don't know that. Learning never stops and markets keep on changing.
 
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