Should Confederate War Memorials/Statues Be Abolished?

Abraham Lincoln
State of the Union 1864 - 6 December 1864

At the last session of Congress a proposed amendment of the Constitution abolishing slavery throughout the United States passed the Senate, but failed for lack of the requisite two-thirds vote in the House of Representatives. Although the present is the same Congress and nearly the same members, and without questioning the wisdom or patriotism of those who stood in opposition, I venture to recommend the reconsideration and passage of the measure at the present session. Of course the abstract question is not changed; but in intervening election shows almost certainly that the next Congress will pass the measure if this does not. Hence there is only a question of time as to when the proposed amendment will go to the States for their action. And as it is to so go at all events, may we not agree that the sooner the better? It is not claimed that the election has imposed a duty on members to change their views or their votes any further than, as an additional element to be considered, their judgment may be affected by it. It is the voice of the people now for the first time heard upon the question. In a great national crisis like ours unanimity of action among those seeking a common end is very desirable--almost indispensable. And yet no approach to such unanimity is attainable unless some deference shall be paid to the will of the majority simply because it is the will of the majority. In this case the common end is the maintenance of the Union, and among the means to secure that end such will, through the election, is most dearly declared in favor of such constitutional amendment.-Abraham Lincoln









http://www.history.com/news/congress-passes-13th-amendment-150-years-ago

That summer, Lincoln’s position on the 13th Amendment continued to evolve. At his party’s convention, he pushed for a Republican platform that called for slavery’s “utter and complete extirpation,” and in accepting the nomination he for the first time called for a federal amendment banning slavery as “a fitting, and necessary conclusion” to the war.


Emboldened by the 1864 election that not only returned him to the White House but increased his party’s seats in Congress, Lincoln threw himself behind the effort to pass the amendment. In his annual message to legislators in December 1864, Lincoln made clear that he had no intention of waiting for the inauguration of the new Congress in March. “The next Congress will pass the measure if this does not,” he wrote. “May we not agree that the sooner the better?”


Although it wasn’t legally necessary, Lincoln affixed his signature to the engrossed copy of the amendment the following day. That night, a jubilant crowd led by a brass band gathered by torchlight outside the White House and raised a great cheer when Lincoln’s lanky frame appeared in a central upper window of the portico. The president leaned outside and told his supporters that slavery had caused the Civil War and must be expunged so that it would never tear apart the country again. “This amendment is a king’s cure for all the evils,” he said. “It winds the whole thing up.” Before he left, Lincoln congratulated the country “upon this great moral victory.”







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirt...States_Constitution#Proposal_and_ratification


President Lincoln had had concerns that the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 might be reversed or found invalid after the war. He saw constitutional amendment as a more permanent solution.[39][40] He had remained outwardly neutral on the amendment because he considered it politically too dangerous.[41] Nonetheless, Lincoln's 1864 party platform resolved to abolish slavery by constitutional amendment.[42][43] After winning the election of 1864, Lincoln made the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment his top legislative priority, beginning his efforts while the "lame duck" session was still in office.[44][45] Popular support for the amendment mounted and Lincoln urged Congress on in his December 6 State of the Union speech: "there is only a question of time as to when the proposed amendment will go to the States for their action. And as it is to so go, at all events, may we not agree that the sooner the better?"[46]



Lincoln instructed Secretary of State William H. Seward, Representative John B. Alley and others to procure votes by any means necessary, and they promised government posts and campaign contributions to outgoing Democrats willing to switch sides.[47][48] Seward had a large fund for direct bribes. Ashley, who reintroduced the measure into the House, also lobbied several Democrats to vote in favor of the measure.[49] Representative Thaddeus Stevens commented later that "the greatest measure of the nineteenth century was passed by corruption, aided and abetted by the purest man in America"; however, Lincoln's precise role in making deals for votes remains unknown.[50]





https://www.gilderlehrman.org/histo...s/abraham-lincoln-and-passage-thirteenth-amen


However, despite fears to the contrary, in the fall of 1864, Lincoln won a resounding re-election, and with that momentum behind him, he endorsed the proposed amendment as the only way to “meet and cover all cavils” about the abolition of slavery.[3] In his December 1864 annual message to Congress, he called for “reconsideration and passage” of James Ashley’s “proposed amendment of the Constitution, abolishing slavery throughout the United States.”[4] And when Ashley moved reconsideration on January 6, 1865, Lincoln went to work, dangling rewards and twisting congressional arms, until on January 31, the reconsideration squeaked through the House by seven votes.[5]







https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...s-mostly-realistic-his-advisers-arent/265073/

Lincoln did, in fact, assume great risk in backing the amendment during his re-election canvass the year before, and he placed the weight of his presidency behind it in 1865.


Spielberg's film also credits Lincoln with sanctioning, and in some cases directly negotiating, the brazen use of patronage appointments to buy off the requisite number of lame duck Democratic congressmen. Here, the record is hazy. Historians generally agree that the president issued broad instructions to Seward, who in turn hired a group of lobbyists from his home state of New York to approach potential apostates. It's highly implausible that Lincoln dealt directly with these men, or that he immersed himself in the details. He was too smart a politician to do that. But he did whip hard for the amendment. He visited a Democratic congressman whose brother had fallen in battle, to tell him that his kin "died to save the Republic from death by the slaveholders' rebellion. I wish you could see it to be your duty to vote for the Constitutional amendment ending slavery." That scene is true to history.






History



The key phrase from your post that you forgot to expunge, tony

From tony's quote:
"however, Lincoln's precise role in making deals for votes remains unknown."

The reason they added that little quote to the end of your paste is because they have no record of him doing anything to pass the ammendment. They have nothing at all but conjecture, which they attempt to turn into conventional wisdom, just like you do.

Trump says he wanted a wall. Then when trump did nothing to get the wall in the budget, lefists like tony claim it was all a scam, he wasn't really going to build a wall, anyway.
But when lincoln makes his speech, tony claims he's fighting for what he said even if there is no proof whatsoever he did anything at all to make it happen. Even the leftists are forced to admit in tiny little footnotes that there's no evidence lincoln did anything at all.

But senators admitted. It was about low labor costs in the south. Not slavery.


A Plagiarist’s Contribution to Lincoln Idolatry“). The main theme of the movie is exactly the opposite of historical truth. The main theme is that Lincoln used his legendary political skills to help get the Thirteenth Amendment that ended slavery through the Congress. But if one reads the most authoritative biography of Lincoln, by Harvard’s David Donald, one learns that not only did Lincoln not lift a finger to help the genuine abolitionists; he literally refused to help them when they went up to him and asked him for his help. Lincoln did use his political skills to get an earlier, proposed Thirteenth Amendment through the House and Senate. It was called the Corwin Amendment, and would have prohibited the federal government from ever interfering with Southern slavery. Even Doris Kearns-Goodwin writes about it in her book, Team of Rivals, discussing how the amendment, named after an Ohio congressman, was in reality the work of Abraham Lincoln."

Read up on the Corwin Ammendment. He did try to get that passed. An ammendment which would prohibit any action interfering with slavery.

ol abe

history
 
And your heroes, the north, did not fight the war to stop slavery. Lincoln said so in his own words. He even wrote it down.

fixed


It is true when the war started Lincoln fought it to keep the union together and not end slavery.As my history professor told our class,Lincoln was not the great emancipator,he became the great emancipator.Lincoln could have let the war end and readmitted the south without the 13th amendment. The north could have stopped fighting when Lincoln made ending slavery a goal.Lincoln even prolonged the war until 13th amendment passed because the south was ready to come back to the union sooner if slavery had stayed in place.The north could have rejected Lincoln and the ending of slavery because Lincoln stated his intention to end slavery permanently prior to his re election.
 
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The key phrase from your post that you forgot to expunge, tony

From tony's quote:
"however, Lincoln's precise role in making deals for votes remains unknown."

The reason they added that little quote to the end of your paste is because they have no record of him doing anything to pass the ammendment. They have nothing at all but conjecture, which they attempt to turn into conventional wisdom, just like you do.

No,its because Lincoln was to smart to leave a paper trail or proof of himself bribing congressmen for their votes.



"The greatest measure of the nineteenth century was passed by corruption, aided and abetted by the purest man in America"- Thaddeus Stevens




Historians generally agree that the president issued broad instructions to Seward, who in turn hired a group of lobbyists from his home state of New York to approach potential apostates. It's highly implausible that Lincoln dealt directly with these men, or that he immersed himself in the details. He was too smart a politician to do that. But he did whip hard for the amendment. He visited a Democratic congressman whose brother had fallen in battle, to tell him that his kin "died to save the Republic from death by the slaveholders' rebellion. I wish you could see it to be your duty to vote for the Constitutional amendment ending slavery." That scene is true to history.


 
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No,its because Lincoln was to smart to leave a paper trail or proof of bribing congressmen for their votes.


Conjectural spin without evidence. And damning, too. Your saying that congress did not want to end slavery. They had to be bribed into it. Your northern congressmen.
 
It is true when the war started Lincoln fought it to keep the union together and not end slavery.As my history professor told our class,Lincoln was not the great emancipator,he became the great emancipator.Lincoln could have let the war end and readmitted the south without the 13th amendment. The north could have stop fighting when Lincoln made ending slavery a goal.Lincoln even prolonged the war until 13th amendment passed because the south was ready to come back to the union sooner if slavery had stayed in place.The north could have rejected Lincoln and the ending of slavery because Lincoln stated his intention to end slavery prior to his re election.


The only ammendment that we have categorical proof that he actually worked on, and not just fancifully talked about, is the Corwin Ammendment. That's was an ammendment that would have prevented gov't from ever doing anything about southern slavery. The ammendment was the work of abe lincoln.

fact
 
Conjectural spin without evidence. And damning, too. Your saying that congress did not want to end slavery. They had to be bribed into it. Your northern congressmen.


A few congressmen did not want to end slavery and had to be lobbied and bribed.
 
The only ammendment that we have categorical proof that he actually worked on, and not just fancifully talked about, is the Corwin Ammendment. That's was an ammendment that would have prevented gov't from ever doing anything about southern slavery. The ammendment was the work of abe lincoln.

fact


"The greatest measure of the nineteenth century (13th amendment)was passed by corruption, aided and abetted by the purest man in America"(Abraham Lincoln)- Thaddeus Stevens




Historians generally agree that the president issued broad instructions to Seward, who in turn hired a group of lobbyists from his home state of New York to approach potential apostates. It's highly implausible that Lincoln dealt directly with these men, or that he immersed himself in the details. He was too smart a politician to do that. But he did whip hard for the amendment. He visited a Democratic congressman whose brother had fallen in battle, to tell him that his kin "died to save the Republic from death by the slaveholders' rebellion. I wish you could see it to be your duty to vote for the Constitutional amendment ending slavery." That scene is true to history.



Joshua Zeitz - the author ofLincoln’s Boys: John Hay, John Nicolay, and the War for Lincoln's Image. He has taught American history and politics at Cambridge University and Princeton University, and is currently writing a book on the making of Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society.
 
I am pretty sure that after that statue of Robert E. Lee comes down that they will want to put up a statue of Chelsea Manning.
Why not Chelsea and Lee side by side. I'd just like to see us start acting like educated adults and recognize that these are statues and taking them down doesn't make the history vanish. And leaving them up might do some good to remind us of our history. Taking down all these statues I suppose is our version of the Taliban destroying the Buddhas of Bamiyan. If I recall we were mighty miffed about that.
 
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The movie Lincoln 2012 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443272/
covers the whole topic of finding & using lobbyists pretty well. Freed the slaves...but invents lobbyists to do so.. what a Lincolon.

90 minutes of this 150 minute film was spent on the 13th Amendment they say.

Review by kentuckybob (Louisville, KY)
"I walked out of the theater wanting to go back in and see it again."

You you can't trust a kentuckybob, who can you trust?
 
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