Should Confederate War Memorials/Statues Be Abolished?

[Tsing Tao]

Again, it is your belief that this action will lead to the hyperbole response you described. There is no frothing minority screaming for the removal of Civil War from our history. If you think about it, it is exactly the opposite. There are a MAJORITY of people who not only see nothing wrong with studying about that part of our history but demand that it be taught for the lessons learned.

Gettysburg is not a Confederate or Union biased history lesson. It is hallowed ground that teaches us important lessons about the past. Antietam and Manassas all are untouchable places. The story of the Civil War is such a strong part of American history from Slavery, changes in the economic model, President Lincoln, 100 years of Jim Crow, etc... The belief that there are people who want this history wiped out and never spoken of is just an exaggerated response to OTHER issues you are upset with and you are extended the actions to this.

There is NO fringe looking to erase Civil War from history, no one in the media or public space claiming it should be done or any hidden agenda suggestion such. Germany has not removed studies of the Holocaust from its educational system though it outlawed displays of swastikas and Third Reich salutes.

I am a history buff and have studied this in great detail and all the various sources of information and liberal and conservative opinions, none of them support anything related to erasing this history down the road.

Ok, well I don't see it your way, sorry.

I see more and more extreme views making their way through politics - mainly from the left - over what is supposedly acceptable and what is not. What is offensive and what is not. Suppression of free speech, forcing of women to accept transgender (men) into their sports, the destruction of statues and national landmarks accepted for over a hundred years, an Anti-fascist movement that is nothing but fascist, attacks on police, college campuses banning words and concepts, theaters banning Gone With the Wind because it is "insensitive", banning the re-enactments of the Civil War because of growing tensions over Confederate memorials...and on an on and on. Couple this with more and more millennials having no idea of history (for a number of different, unrelated reasons) and it isn't hard to visualize (if you want to, of course) how history begins to fade before long because no child can walk through a park one day and say "Dad, who was Stonewall Jackson?" when he points to a statue. That child will never ask the question, never hear about the good, the bad and the ugly (not the movie - though I'm sure that will get banned someday, too, because the villain is a Mexican) that led to the bloodiest battle between American brothers in the history of the nation.

Meanwhile, the envelope on what is allowed is pushed smaller and smaller, and the list of what is offensive gets longer and longer. Can't say these words one day, can't do this the next. Someone will be offended if you do. You could lose your job if you do. Your career. Your family might get harassed. Your social media account censored. You might get beat up. Your kids ostracized. Kicked out of a restaurant. Assaulted for wearing a hat - hats are racist.

Bah, what am I talking about. None of this happens today, right? I'm just being hysterical. Hyperbolic. There's no chance to any of this happening in the real world, my child can still learn it in school, right? Carry on.

 

[El OchoCinco]

All of what you are saying in general is possible in the anal PC-ish society we have become. But then you apply it to the history of the U.S. where the movement over the past 50-60 years has been about what is NOT taught in schools, not about what NOT to teach in schools. That is why I state that your general viewpoint do not apply to this situation because there is way more evidence against it happening.

A child at some point in their education is taught about the Civil War. If they NEVER HEARD (we cannot vouch for them remembering and learning) about Stonewall Jackson it is because their specific school has failed in teaching U.S. history, not because there is no statue. President Lincoln is always covered in the context of the Civil War. Why do you believe someone has the power to remove that history, there is a monument to him in Washington, D.C.


You last paragraph again returns to the hyperbole rather than the substance and I believe I have been very direct and reasonable in my last few posts on this topic.

 

[Tsing Tao]

All of what you are saying in general is possible in the anal PC-ish society we have become. But then you apply it to the history of the U.S. where the movement over the past 50-60 years has been about what is NOT taught in schools, not about what NOT to teach in schools. That is why I state that your general viewpoint do not apply to this situation because there is way more evidence against it happening.

A child at some point in their education is taught about the Civil War. If they NEVER HEARD (we cannot vouch for them remembering and learning) about Stonewall Jackson it is because their specific school has failed in teaching U.S. history, not because there is no statue. President Lincoln is always covered in the context of the Civil War. Why do you believe someone has the power to remove that history, there is a monument to him in Washington, D.C.


You last paragraph again returns to the hyperbole rather than the substance and I believe I have been very direct and reasonable in my last few posts on this topic.

Heh, you can't say "I've been reasonable in my last few posts" and then expect me to forget everything else in the discussion. You have been reasonable in your last few posts, but you still don't get it. You have your opinion and I have mine. That's really it. You don't believe that what I say is at risk is at risk. Ok.

You keep going back to the fact that the school teaches the Civil War. So what? I'm saying that might not be true at some point as the envelope gets pushed further and further. How many times do I have to say the same exact thing in different words? I think I'm on eleven now.

 

[El OchoCinco]

Because I have made reasonable arguments as to why that is not possible even in the current environment and you are just repeating your statement without modulation to evidence to the contrary.

I assumed you would have an open mind to see the facts to soothe your fears, in fact what I have said should make you feel less concerned about this issue (i said a lot more than the fact that it is just taught in schools) but you seem to just want to feel the way you feel no matter what logic is presented and be like:

 

[Tsing Tao]

Because I have made reasonable arguments as to why that is not possible even in the current environment and you are just repeating your statement without modulation to evidence to the contrary.

I assumed you would have an open mind to see the facts to soothe your fears, in fact what I have said should make you feel less concerned about this issue (i said a lot more than the fact that it is just taught in schools) but you seem to just want to feel the way you feel no matter what logic is presented and be like:

Yeah, because you insist they are reasonable, they have to be reasonable, right? You're the authority on reason around here.

I heard your arguments. I don't agree with them. Like a true liberal, that isn't acceptable to you. If someone doesn't agree with you they have to be stupid, or ignoring common sense, or they can't see reason. They don't have an open mind. At least you haven't called me racist. I suppose that's the silver lining.

Got news for you, your logic isn't the only logic out there. Sorry if that triggers you.

I am fine you don't agree with me. You seem to have issues when I don't agree with you. Get the fuck over it already. Don't be like:

 

[Cuddles]

Again, it is your belief that this action will lead to the hyperbole response you described. There is no frothing minority screaming for the removal of Civil War from our history. If you think about it, it is exactly the opposite. There are a MAJORITY of people who not only see nothing wrong with studying about that part of our history but demand that it be taught for the lessons learned.

Gettysburg is not a Confederate or Union biased history lesson. It is hallowed ground that teaches us important lessons about the past. Antietam and Manassas all are untouchable places. The story of the Civil War is such a strong part of American history from Slavery, changes in the economic model, President Lincoln, 100 years of Jim Crow, etc... The belief that there are people who want this history wiped out and never spoken of is just an exaggerated response to OTHER issues you are upset with and you are extended the actions to this.

There is NO fringe looking to erase Civil War from history, no one in the media or public space claiming it should be done or any hidden agenda suggestion such. Germany has not removed studies of the Holocaust from its educational system though it outlawed displays of swastikas and Third Reich salutes.

I am a history buff and have studied this in great detail and all the various sources of information and liberal and conservative opinions, none of them support anything related to erasing this history down the road.

Fear drives every decision of a con's mind

 

[Tsing Tao]

Fear drives every decision of a con's mind

And impotent anger, a liberal's.

 

[Cuddles]

And impotent anger, a liberal's.

Sucks for them

 

[El OchoCinco]

Yeah, because you insist they are reasonable, they have to be reasonable, right? You're the authority on reason around here.

I heard your arguments. I don't agree with them. Like a true liberal, that isn't acceptable to you. If someone doesn't agree with you they have to be stupid, or ignoring common sense, or they can't see reason. They don't have an open mind. At least you haven't called me racist. I suppose that's the silver lining.

Got news for you, your logic isn't the only logic out there. Sorry if that triggers you.

I am fine you don't agree with me. You seem to have issues when I don't agree with you. Get the fuck over it already. Don't be like:

I am not a liberal so you already show your bias...your cloud your judgment with assumptions rather than just talk.

Funny how me not agreeing with you makes me stupid while you write that a typical liberal believes if someone does not believe the same they think you are stupid.

I don't think you are stupid or racist, just a hypocrite.

 

[Tsing Tao]

I am not a liberal so you already show your bias...your cloud your judgment with assumptions rather than just talk.

Funny how me not agreeing with you makes me stupid while you write that a typical liberal believes if someone does not believe the same they think you are stupid.

I don't think you are stupid or racist, just a hypocrite.

Did I call you stupid in here somewhere? Please show me, because I would like to immediately apologize.

And I guess I have to apologize on calling you liberal. You've stated on here that you are socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Since this discussion is a social one (it isn't fiscal, of course) I didn't realize you were the social liberal who isn't liberal. That, plus the fact that you regularly defend liberals and attack conservatives on this website misled me.