I'm not sure how I feel about shorting in this situation (I think the "big boys" might gap the open so far down that shorting might be tough anyway). But, would going long and then selling into every rally be any better? A sudden drop might be easier to recover from than a long down-trend in which every rally is sold into so heavily that it can never gain momentum. In other words, if you want to make a statement by buying long and holding the shares until the bull market eventually returns, I applaude you (I have a few shares I bought about two years ago, so be ready for a long wait). But, if you're going to trade I don't think that buying long and selling into the rallies or squeezes is going to have a positive impact. Good luck, I hope we can all find some way to be of assistance to our country and those in need.
Shorting will help terrorists--no shorts
- Thread starter stockoptionist
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Personally, I will simply stay out of the markets until the smoke clears. I'm not buying long, and I'm not shorting. I'm not going to buy and sell a rally. Zip. I'll just do nothing. I'm with stockoptionist. I refuse to participate in any way whatsoever. When the market recovers from the initial shock, I will return, shorting and longing as I did before.
I do believe that shorting now -- especially shorting companies directly affected by this tragedy like airlines or insurance -- is ethically wrong. I do not buy the "I'm a trader and trading is a profession" argument, since it's not an argument, just an evasion or rationalization. If the Nazi's were packing off the Jews on cattle cars I wouldn't go into the cattle car business either to profit from the tragedy, though I guess I could say "providing transportation is a profession". Nor would I short Jewish owned businesses, knowing that they would soon enough be bankrupt. Or I guess when the Romans were crucifying people I guess I could have gone into the cross building business. Same story, I would not have.
No. I'll stay out. I think I am a decent trader. I know how to make money in the market. That said, I don't NEED to trade this opportunity out of some kind of desperation for profit. The market provides tons of opportunities to make money. I don't need to profit from THIS one.
That said, I have no problem with shorting per se. Shorting is fine. It is simply shorting given industries in this situation that brings up ethical questions. I think there are few times when financial trading strategy intersects moral and ethical questions. But this, unfortunately, is one of them.
If you want to short tragedy wrecked industries, I can't stop you. But you'll need to look down into your heart and be able to live with what you are doing. I don't have to be able to live with you, you have to be able to live with yourself. Me -- I like living comfortably with myself. So I'll be sitting it out.
Wet
I do believe that shorting now -- especially shorting companies directly affected by this tragedy like airlines or insurance -- is ethically wrong. I do not buy the "I'm a trader and trading is a profession" argument, since it's not an argument, just an evasion or rationalization. If the Nazi's were packing off the Jews on cattle cars I wouldn't go into the cattle car business either to profit from the tragedy, though I guess I could say "providing transportation is a profession". Nor would I short Jewish owned businesses, knowing that they would soon enough be bankrupt. Or I guess when the Romans were crucifying people I guess I could have gone into the cross building business. Same story, I would not have.
No. I'll stay out. I think I am a decent trader. I know how to make money in the market. That said, I don't NEED to trade this opportunity out of some kind of desperation for profit. The market provides tons of opportunities to make money. I don't need to profit from THIS one.
That said, I have no problem with shorting per se. Shorting is fine. It is simply shorting given industries in this situation that brings up ethical questions. I think there are few times when financial trading strategy intersects moral and ethical questions. But this, unfortunately, is one of them.
If you want to short tragedy wrecked industries, I can't stop you. But you'll need to look down into your heart and be able to live with what you are doing. I don't have to be able to live with you, you have to be able to live with yourself. Me -- I like living comfortably with myself. So I'll be sitting it out.
Wet
Another thought:
If we all stop trading, then SEC will close the exchange... isn't that what the terrorists wanted (to destroy the free financial market in the US)?
Also, for those guys who will stop trading:
How long are you guys gonna wait before resume trading? will it be OK to short or long the week AFTER next week? Should NYSE and NAZ remain closed for another week? or a month? or...because we don't want those terrorists COVER their shorts at the low price, right?
If we all stop trading, then SEC will close the exchange... isn't that what the terrorists wanted (to destroy the free financial market in the US)?
Also, for those guys who will stop trading:
How long are you guys gonna wait before resume trading? will it be OK to short or long the week AFTER next week? Should NYSE and NAZ remain closed for another week? or a month? or...because we don't want those terrorists COVER their shorts at the low price, right?
Lone hand:
When the market settles down -- which I suspect won't take long -- I'll trade again.
Your argument "what if everyone stopped trading" proves too much, by the way.
Does this mean that it would have been silly to refuse to go into the train business for the Germans in WWII (and thus benefit from tragedy) because if everyone refused then sure the Jews would not have wound up at camps but then again no one would have gotten anywhere (since the trains wouldn't run) either?
I don't think so.
MGB:
If you intend on shorting tragedy affected industries, and you can look yourself in the mirror in the morning, then I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. Not me. My mirror is too clean and I can't hide.
Wet
When the market settles down -- which I suspect won't take long -- I'll trade again.
Your argument "what if everyone stopped trading" proves too much, by the way.
Does this mean that it would have been silly to refuse to go into the train business for the Germans in WWII (and thus benefit from tragedy) because if everyone refused then sure the Jews would not have wound up at camps but then again no one would have gotten anywhere (since the trains wouldn't run) either?
I don't think so.
MGB:
If you intend on shorting tragedy affected industries, and you can look yourself in the mirror in the morning, then I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. Not me. My mirror is too clean and I can't hide.
Wet
Honus,
I fail to see your point. Shorting United Airlines before the tragedy, and doing it tomorrow, are like comparing apples and oranges.
Whether the market will 'take care of itself' is really irrelevant. Of course it will. What does this have to do with the fact that certain trading activities right now have ethical implications?
I get the feeling that some people here don't like to actually have to think about the ethical implications of what they do. Too tough to do I guess.
God Bless America and all of its principled citizens.
Wet
I fail to see your point. Shorting United Airlines before the tragedy, and doing it tomorrow, are like comparing apples and oranges.
Whether the market will 'take care of itself' is really irrelevant. Of course it will. What does this have to do with the fact that certain trading activities right now have ethical implications?
I get the feeling that some people here don't like to actually have to think about the ethical implications of what they do. Too tough to do I guess.
God Bless America and all of its principled citizens.
Wet
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