Shorting Listed outside NYSE

[bungrider]

Anyone know if it's easier to get a short off on a listed stock outside of the NYSE?

Say I try to short a listed stock on Island - does the NYSE uptick rule apply, the nas rule, or no rule?

Say ABC is trading 20.05 x 20.10, last prints were at 20.10 and then 20.05 (dt). Can I put an offer out on island or instinet at 20.09 and have it displayed automatically, or will my broker's software not send the order to instinet/island until the next uptick?

Of course I could just go try this, but the idea just popped in my head and the markets don't open for 10 more hours....

-bungholio

 

[chasinfla]

you could get your friends who dont understand short selling to buy from you.


ok im just waking up. actually, it's a pretty good question.

i should probably delete this post.

 

[chasinfla]

<a href="https://www.mastertrader.com/CustServices/FAQs/TradingFAQs.asp?Link=Trading%20Inquiry#short">

The short sale rule for NYSE and AMEX differs slightly, you can only sell short stock on an up-tick. Only trades done on the NYSE or AMEX, can create an up-tick on their respective stocks. [\quote]</a>

 

[bungrider]

Originally posted by chasinfla
you could get your friends who dont understand short selling to buy from you.

hehe that reminds me of this fill i got today way outside of the market. gotta love risk-free profits.

yeah, maybe i'll become a stockbroker/daytrader. whenever a trade goes bad i'll just put it out on some ECN that noone uses (attain or litespeed) $1 away from where i got it and call a client and persuade them to buy it.

 

[chasinfla]

The short sale rule for NYSE and AMEX differs slightly, you can only sell short stock on an up-tick. Only trades done on the NYSE or AMEX, can create an up-tick on their respective stocks. [\quote]


source: https://www.mastertrader.com/CustServices/FAQs/TradingFAQs.asp?Link=Trading Inquiry#short

 

[bungrider]

Originally posted by chasinfla
<a href="https://www.mastertrader.com/CustServices/FAQs/TradingFAQs.asp?Link=Trading%20Inquiry#short">

The short sale rule for NYSE and AMEX differs slightly, you can only sell short stock on an up-tick. Only trades done on the NYSE or AMEX, can create an up-tick on their respective stocks. [\quote]</a>

thanks chas....that answered my question. acc to them, each ECN will keep track of whether listed stocks have been upticked or downticked.

btw, did you ever get to the bottom of your clearing fee dilemma? it would be interesting to get a group of traders together who do enough volume and see how low we could get per share fees down to...

 

[chasinfla]

bugrider:

This is really a good question. I think the issue is, what do the NYSE and SEC consider a relevant tick, and I'm guessing that it all gets down to CQS -- the 'tape.'

Consolidated Quote System (CQS)

Collects and disseminates, electronically, current bid and asked quotations along with volume, from and to all market centers trading listed stocks.

(http://www.nyse.com/regulation/regulation.html)

About the other thing: I just read this: "seatholders can buy and sell securities without paying commissions." Everytime I call Bear Stearns about this they give me the song and dance... What I'd save in commish would cover a seat lease but I can't get straight info about that clearing rate.

So that's the game bung. Own a seat. Have a 1000 traders trading under you. charge 'em each a commish. nice model, eh? a dictionary definition of 'scalability.'

All I am is a grunt.

<a href="">
<img src="http://www.shopforsuperdeals.com/images/Amazon/barbie/vwbug.jpg" width=100 height=100></img></a>

<i>giddeyup!!</i>

 

[chasinfla]

Originally posted by bungrider

yeah, maybe i'll become a stockbroker/daytrader. whenever a trade goes bad i'll just put it out on some ECN that noone uses (attain or litespeed) $1 away from where i got it and call a client and persuade them to buy it.

I think you've just described the investment banking industry succinctly.

 

[Newatthis]

Can you short NYSE stocks after the close if the only trade is on an ECN and it is lower than the last CQS quote?

 

[chasinfla]

No. Not legally, anyway. The last print must be an uptick or zero plus tick. An uptick after hours qualifies...so you have to offer at a price that would create the uptick.