SHORT Walmart? "Loughner Bought Bullets at Walmart"

Trader7793 · Jan 15, 2011

I sometimes hear those who oppose gun ownership make the argument that the second amendment does not matter in modern times becasu the Govt has control of the military which has tanks planes and predator drones...so your AR-15 is would be useless against them. That argument misses the point. A few citizens with guns would of course be instantly crushed if they were in conflict with the US govt. However 80 million gun owners would be a formidable and very dangerous foe. Remember militaries have to hold and control areas in order to be in charge. If flying overhead with drones actually won wars then the US would have bee out of Afghanistan years ago. If govt forces ever used massive air strikes and tactical nuclear weapons..they would rule over rubble.

The second amendment is one of the checks and balances against tyranny. It is an effective deterent because the majority of Americans are armed...not a tiny minority. Think about that for a minute. 80 million well armed people can only be ruled through their consent.

AK100 · Jan 15, 2011

The good ol' Land of the Free

Become a spy for your country and inform on your neighbors and friends.

Now, in which countries have we seen this sort of behaviour in the past? Soviet Union, North Korea, East Germany etc etc.

I used to love going to America on holiday, great times. Don't think I'll ever be back, too scary for me.

HowardCohodas · Jan 15, 2011

Quote from AK100:

The good ol' Land of the Free

Become a spy for your country and inform on your neighbors and friends.

Now, in which countries have we seen this sort of behaviour in the past? Soviet Union, North Korea, East Germany etc etc.

I used to love going to America on holiday, great times. Don't think I'll ever be back, too scary for me.

Maybe you would prefer the UK where a man found a discarded firearm in his yard, reported it and faced prison. Guilty: Paul Clarke faces at least five years in prison for handing in a discarded shotgun

LEAPup · Jan 15, 2011

Quote from Trader7793:

I sometimes hear those who oppose gun ownership make the argument that the second amendment does not matter in modern times becasu the Govt has control of the military which has tanks planes and predator drones...so your AR-15 is would be useless against them. That argument misses the point. A few citizens with guns would of course be instantly crushed if they were in conflict with the US govt. However 80 million gun owners would be a formidable and very dangerous foe. Remember militaries have to hold and control areas in order to be in charge. If flying overhead with drones actually won wars then the US would have bee out of Afghanistan years ago. If govt forces ever used massive air strikes and tactical nuclear weapons..they would rule over rubble.

The second amendment is one of the checks and balances against tyranny. It is an effective deterent because the majority of Americans are armed...not a tiny minority. Think about that for a minute. 80 million well armed people can only be ruled through their consent.

Great post!

clacy · Jan 15, 2011

Something that hasn't really been talked about in this thread, is that contrary to most peoples' perception on this issue, violent crime has come down dramatically since it peaked in the late 70's, and has even come down since 2004 when the assault rifle ban was lifted.

Crime and violent crime in particular rose significantly during the 1960's. That happens to coincide with the US going through a major cultural revolution, where it's safe to say that when the leftists started pushing the cultural revolution, it had a very negative impact on crime in the US.

rew · Jan 17, 2011

Quote from BSAM:

Clacy...

You do realize that when the 2nd amendment was written that the glock and ar-15 weren't invented, right?

So what? The telegraph, telephone, radio, television, and internet weren't invented then either. Are you saying that the first amendment shouldn't apply to those media, just because the founding fathers didn't have them in mind when they wrote the Bill of Rights?

The purpose of the second amendment is to provide a bulwark against oppressive government. Therefore the types of weapons it applies to should include those needed to carry out a successful insurgency. Nuclear weapons don't rate, AR-15s do.

LEAPup · Jan 17, 2011

Quote from rew:

So what? The telegraph, telephone, radio, television, and internet weren't invented then either. Are you saying that the first amendment shouldn't apply to those media, just because the founding fathers didn't have them in mind when they wrote the Bill of Rights?

The purpose of the second amendment is to provide a bulwark against oppressive government. Therefore the types of weapons it applies to should include those needed to carry out a successful insurgency. Nuclear weapons don't rate, AR-15s do.

Agreed! Looks like the anti gun crowd is losing their case in this thread. And they should!

LEAPup · Jan 17, 2011

Quote from AK100:

The good ol' Land of the Free

Become a spy for your country and inform on your neighbors and friends.

Now, in which countries have we seen this sort of behaviour in the past? Soviet Union, North Korea, East Germany etc etc.

I used to love going to America on holiday, great times. Don't think I'll ever be back, too scary for me.

Great post! And yes, it is scary living in a Country that's slowly moving towards socialism...

Where do you live now btw? My Family came here from Italy in the 1920's. I'd like to move there, or possibly Scotland. Our Sons will be out of High School in the next two years, and we've thought about a major move. My problem is I'm sure there will be no taking my AR-15's, and other military style guns with us...