Short Sale update

Copernicus · Apr 30, 2005

Quote from bdon:

(2) short sales in any security included in the Russell 1000 Index effected between 4:15 p.m. EST and the open of the consolidated tape the following day

does this mean that stocks in the Pilot B List have the ss rule suspended only in after hours, but not regular hours?

the sec statements always confuse the hell out of me.

ratboy88 · Apr 30, 2005

Quote from Copernicus:

(2) short sales in any security included in the Russell 1000 Index effected between 4:15 p.m. EST and the open of the consolidated tape the following day

does this mean that stocks in the Pilot B List have the ss rule suspended only in after hours, but not regular hours?

the sec statements always confuse the hell out of me.

by george i think you've got it...... at least that's how i read it.

rubberbird · Apr 30, 2005

Quote from Copernicus:

(2) short sales in any security included in the Russell 1000 Index effected between 4:15 p.m. EST and the open of the consolidated tape the following day

does this mean that stocks in the Pilot B List have the ss rule suspended only in after hours, but not regular hours?

Once again, the NYSE finds a way to screw short sellers. Seems that the only way a specialist can make a quick profit is off a short sale at the market, how sad and pathetic. This anti-competitive, anti-capitalistic short sale rule is a DISGRACE. All the good stocks are on list "B", the list where you can sell short after 4:15pm??!! I didn't know trading even existed then.

Only when the NYSE brain-trust realizes to come into the 21st century and abolish this anti-capitalistic short sale rule for ALL BIG CAP stocks, will it have a chance to regain its lost luster. And while they're trying to improve market conditions, change the penny increments to nickels and restore the integrity (and SIZE) of bids and offers. You would think smart people at the NYSE would already know this, but the specialists have to rob the public some way.

stock777 · Apr 30, 2005

rubberbird is right, and we will all be rich beyond our wildest dreams when we can short every stock 24 hours a day.

I dream of the day when the shorts have driven them all to .01 cent bid.

Just be careful, the only offers might be at $100.00

rubberbird · Apr 30, 2005

Quote from stock777:

rubberbird is right, and we will all be rich beyond our wildest dreams when we can short every stock 24 hours a day.

I dream of the day when the shorts have driven them all to .01 cent bid.

Just be careful, the only offers might be at $100.00

There is no such thing as a BIG CAP stock like GE, CVX etc being manipulated by short sellers. It is IMPOSSIBLE. The only thing fair short selling will do is improve market conditions in the big cap stocks. You would think the NYSE would understand and want this...but nooo. I'm amazed how dumb the powers that be are, even my dog understands this.

I Missed Boat · Apr 30, 2005

Quote from Hydroblunt:

Try to gain an understanding of the short sale mechanics, let alone actual trading experience before making that statement.

I can't say with 100% certainty but I side with SIZE. Uptick rule is smth that was exploited and is an inneffieciency that was used as a money making opportunity. Big market shorts provide 2 trading opportunties, the short takedown and the bounce. So say bye bye to those moves.

Bullets were great at first, good after a while and turned into a chop chop penny fighting churning mess soon thereafter as prop shops where hiring newbies to hit bids left and right. Now that anyone can hit bids, there is no advantage whatsoever. In case of bad news, should be veeerryyy interesting to see what happens. I wager that on any stock doing 1mil and below, all bids will simply be pulled for points. Good luck getting short.

we agree on this one. I was eager for this soon after they eliminated bullets. Eventually I realized that natural shorts weren't so bad. They could even make for some good and easy trades (despite competing with some people using conversions). Now this is the worst possibility, especially for scalping. It is just going to decrease the range in many stocks and make them whipsaw more. But I'm hoping to yet again, as Clint said in Heartbreak Ridge, improvise, adapt and overcome!

I Missed Boat · Apr 30, 2005

Quote from Hydroblunt:

What little guy? Whole market is just hedgies & daytraders, half of which just go around the uptick.
The ones actually getting hurt by this are the conversions and ESSEX, as well as expert abusers of the uptick rule. Not sure if anyone actually benefits.

I'd have to add to that list that people who became decent (or better) at shorting naturally are hurt by this. Things are going to whipsaw more, taking away from the potential profit in many trades.

I Missed Boat · Apr 30, 2005

Quote from rubberbird:

Once again, the NYSE finds a way to screw short sellers. Seems that the only way a specialist can make a quick profit is off a short sale at the market, how sad and pathetic. This anti-competitive, anti-capitalistic short sale rule is a DISGRACE. All the good stocks are on list "B", the list where you can sell short after 4:15pm??!! I didn't know trading even existed then.

Only when the NYSE brain-trust realizes to come into the 21st century and abolish this anti-capitalistic short sale rule for ALL BIG CAP stocks, will it have a chance to regain its lost luster. And while they're trying to improve market conditions, change the penny increments to nickels and restore the integrity (and SIZE) of bids and offers. You would think smart people at the NYSE would already know this, but the specialists have to rob the public some way.

What are you even talking about?? The Naz trades in fractions of pennies, and the SEC is the one who came up with the list. There are more stocks available on NYSE exempt of the short sale rule than on the Naz (despite the fact that the Naz has more stocks). It keeps amazing me how far people will reach to blame the NYSE and come up with conspiracy theories against it.

http://www.sec.gov/rules/other/34-50104.htm

ratboy88 · May 1, 2005

Quote from I Missed Boat:

What are you even talking about?? The Naz trades in fractions of pennies, and the SEC is the one who came up with the list. There are more stocks available on NYSE exempt of the short sale rule than on the Naz (despite the fact that the Naz has more stocks). It keeps amazing me how far people will reach to blame the NYSE and come up with conspiracy theories against it.

http://www.sec.gov/rules/other/34-50104.htm

who cares about the naz..he wasn't even talking about that.

rubberbird · May 1, 2005

Quote from I Missed Boat:

It keeps amazing me how far people will reach to blame the NYSE and come up with conspiracy theories against it.

Gee whiz, I must be soo far off in blaming the poor ole NYSE. You're right, there are no conspiracies...

1) Grasso was fully entitled to take $150M..yes sir!

2) NYSE is the ONLY exchange in the world that has the anti-capitalistic short sale rule

3) Ever try shorting "at the market" on the NYSE and have to wait 15 minutes, and get filled 50 cents below where the market was trading? How bout not getting filled at all?? Happens all the time towards the end of the day.

4) The NYSE hides behind the SEC, and so idiots on this board will tell you , "its not the NYSE fault, blame the SEC." What idiots! If the NYSE wanted to eliminate the specialists and the short sale rule, they could do it TOMORROW. They don't. They cannot profit in a fair market. The NYSE sucks, and volume, and integrity will continue to slide until they suck it up and level the field.