Short gamma trade in EBAY

Quote from riskarb:

Absolutely, and I point I should've made... I should not have suggested anyone trade this with me -- in fact, please do not. The risks are open-ended.

Thanks Wee -- I will leave it alone, and will post any short follow-ups to the position, but that'll be it for me and ET, receiving and posting what amounts to flaming is too time consuming -- wish everyone well on the board, even Mav.

arb.

Well, you did do a disclosure early on in this thread saying

"FWIW, it serves my interest to report the trade here -- hopefully some of you will jump on board and we can lower the implied volty in this dog..."

So if you don't mind, what are your trade management strategies?

In particular, have you set stops?
 
Quote from Specul8r:

Mav why do you insist on acting like such a fucking lame? The guy didn't get the book he trades by chance and he most definately hasn't stayed in the game as long as he has by chance. The guys profit potential on this play alone is more than likely higher than your entire net worth! And I don't say this to imply that you should bow down and kiss his ass, or agree with everything he says, if you don't like the play, then by all means say so - once!

Where the fuck do kids like you get the cajones to talk down to someone who was playing and has lasted since you were sucking on your mommies titties? I mean seriously bro what the fuck have you ever done? Get a life man, go out and get laid, stop wasting all your time spouting your right-wing nonsense on the chit-chat forum and antagonizing someone you would be much better spent trying to learn from. I don't give a fuck how much you think you know about options or the game of trading, your ego is way too stiff to last in this game for very long, so enjoy it while it lasts man... tick tock tick tock tick tock... maybe after you blow out you can run for office or something...

:cool: Well SAID!!!:cool:

James Stock gets bitchslapped:D by riskarb ( see Jame's "The S&P looks very toppy" thread moved to chitchat), he then comes back under the Maverick74 handle continuously bs criticizing riskarb :( What a joke:p
JamesStock, Romeo, Maverick74, et all. get a grip dude!!!:eek:
 
Quote from Nolan-Vinny-Sam:

:cool: Well SAID!!!:cool:

James Stock gets bitchslapped:D by riskarb ( see Jame's "The S&P looks very toppy" thread moved to chitchat), he then comes back under the Maverick74 handle continuously bs criticizing riskarb :( What a joke:p
JamesStock, Romeo, Maverick74, et all. get a grip dude!!!:eek:


$5.85 x $6.00 on the straddle, marked. That's the offer on individuals and the ISE spread quote, size on both. Feel free to check it...

So much for being lucky to clear $10large... $16k at the offer.

arb.
 
Quote from TempusFugit:

Well, you did do a disclosure early on in this thread saying

"FWIW, it serves my interest to report the trade here -- hopefully some of you will jump on board and we can lower the implied volty in this dog..."

So if you don't mind, what are your trade management strategies?

In particular, have you set stops?


Hey Tempus,
I am replying since you've brought up a valid point -- I had no biz posting this, esp. w/o any risk parms.

I will offset it prior to earnings if we go ITM on either leg = to 50% of the credit rec'd, plus a bit extra -- so offset if EBAY hits $62.20 or $68.80 before earnings are released.

I will get back to the position mgmt. after earnings if applicable. I wouldn't hedge with spot unless we're trading on the release.

arb.
 
Quote from riskarb:

Hey Tempus,
I am replying since you've brought up a valid point -- I had no biz posting this, esp. w/o any risk parms.

I will offset it prior to earnings if we go ITM on either leg = to 50% of the credit rec'd, plus a bit extra -- so offset if EBAY hits $62.20 or $68.80 before earnings are released.

I will get back to the position mgmt. after earnings if applicable. I wouldn't hedge with spot unless we're trading on the release.

arb.

Sorry, was using the spot price.. $61.20 - $68.80 pre -earnings

arb.
 
Riskarb,

Just a question, not meant in a negative way, but isn't this type of trade that is the proverbial stepping in front of freight trains to pick up nickels?

Everything I've read and studied on options trading (just finished Baird's Option Market Making) plus my own LIMITED experience suggest positions with unlimited risk should always be avoided.

This would seem to be the type of trade where you make decent money 8-9 times out of 10 and the 1 time the stock gaps up or down big on the earnings number it wipes out the 8-9 times you made money and even some more possibly.

I guess I am just not seeing the overall positive expectancy here or a compelling risk/reward although I could be missing something.

If the the trade thesis is primarily that EBAY will remain rangebound after earnings and also to pick up some time decay then it seems to me that hedging the short straddle with a long strangle would be superior because it eliminates the unlimited risk aspect.

Now from your original post, I recall the thesis is primarily that IV will come in a few points. Are there not much better plays to isolate being purely short vega then short straddles or am I missing something here? Although you mentioned avoiding it, I do not understand why a short calendar would not be much better or even some type of delta neutral ratio spread.

Just asking questions to try and learn.
 
Quote from MDCigan:

Riskarb,

Just a question, not meant in a negative way, but isn't this type of trade that is the proverbial stepping in front of freight trains to pick up nickels?

Everything I've read and studied on options trading (just finished Baird's Option Market Making) plus my own LIMITED experience suggest positions with unlimited risk should always be avoided.

This would seem to be the type of trade where you make decent money 8-9 times out of 10 and the 1 time the stock gaps up or down big on the earnings number it wipes out the 8-9 times you made money and even some more possibly.

I guess I am just not seeing the overall positive expectancy here or a compelling risk/reward although I could be missing something.

If the the trade thesis is primarily that EBAY will remain rangebound after earnings and also to pick up some time decay then it seems to me that hedging the short straddle with a long strangle would be superior because it eliminates the unlimited risk aspect.

Now from your original post, I recall the thesis is primarily that IV will come in a few points. Are there not much better plays to isolate being purely short vega then short straddles or am I missing something here? Although you mentioned avoiding it, I do not understand why a short calendar would not be much better or even some type of delta neutral ratio spread.

Just asking questions to try and learn.

MDCigan,

Not to step in front of riskarb's answer to this, but in the meantime check out my thread on christmas trees. I believe that is the optimal strategy to sell vega.
 
Quote from MDCigan:

Riskarb,

Just a question, not meant in a negative way, but isn't this type of trade that is the proverbial stepping in front of freight trains to pick up nickels?

Everything I've read and studied on options trading (just finished Baird's Option Market Making) plus my own LIMITED experience suggest positions with unlimited risk should always be avoided.

This would seem to be the type of trade where you make decent money 8-9 times out of 10 and the 1 time the stock gaps up or down big on the earnings number it wipes out the 8-9 times you made money and even some more possibly.

I guess I am just not seeing the overall positive expectancy here or a compelling risk/reward although I could be missing something.

If the the trade thesis is primarily that EBAY will remain rangebound after earnings and also to pick up some time decay then it seems to me that hedging the short straddle with a long strangle would be superior because it eliminates the unlimited risk aspect.

Now from your original post, I recall the thesis is primarily that IV will come in a few points. Are there not much better plays to isolate being purely short vega then short straddles or am I missing something here? Although you mentioned avoiding it, I do not understand why a short calendar would not be much better or even some type of delta neutral ratio spread.

Just asking questions to try and learn.


There's no better method of isolating "pure vega" as you put it, conversely, the short straddle is the one option position most maligned for it's razor-thin margin of error. IOW, no opsition will earn as much in vega per 100bp on the volty-line.

If you're long a straddle, your risk is truly limited, although can be catastrophic if traded too large in contract-terms. Your small margin of error is expressed in decay, which marks-down your volty-line daily. You can attempt to neutralize your bleeding by gamma-trading your position in stock.

A short straddle has a large prob. of profit, as 777 pointed out, but lacks in the "margin of error" dept. due to the asymmetry of returns under the entire P&L distribution.

So the (short straddle) position is a pure tradeoff, prob. of profit for risk.

My practical risk relates to a gap before earnings, below/above my pre-release stops($61.20 - $68.80) or a gap related to earnings, in which it would be unlikely I would have the opportunity to offset or gamma hedge my delta position after the release.

It's essentially a bet that spot-volty will stay within a $7.60 range -- centered on the strike price, $65.00

In answer to your question -- it is akin to picking up $.05 in front of a bulldozer.

Best,
arb.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

MDCigan,

Not to step in front of riskarb's answer to this, but in the meantime check out my thread on christmas trees. I believe that is the optimal strategy to sell vega.

Yeah, XMAS trees are certainly better in terms of risk, net vega/gamma, but nowhere near the absolute-vega sensitivity.

All in all, I love to trade XMAS trees, a lower-exposure frontspread.

arb.
 
Quote from MDCigan:

Riskarb,

Just a question, not meant in a negative way, but isn't this type of trade that is the proverbial stepping in front of freight trains to pick up nickels?

Everything I've read and studied on options trading (just finished Baird's Option Market Making) plus my own LIMITED experience suggest positions with unlimited risk should always be avoided.

This would seem to be the type of trade where you make decent money 8-9 times out of 10 and the 1 time the stock gaps up or down big on the earnings number it wipes out the 8-9 times you made money and even some more possibly.

I guess I am just not seeing the overall positive expectancy here or a compelling risk/reward although I could be missing something.

If the the trade thesis is primarily that EBAY will remain rangebound after earnings and also to pick up some time decay then it seems to me that hedging the short straddle with a long strangle would be superior because it eliminates the unlimited risk aspect.

Now from your original post, I recall the thesis is primarily that IV will come in a few points. Are there not much better plays to isolate being purely short vega then short straddles or am I missing something here? Although you mentioned avoiding it, I do not understand why a short calendar would not be much better or even some type of delta neutral ratio spread.

Just asking questions to try and learn.

I missed your short time spread comment... I'm not looking for that greek exposure.

Regarding the position I do have, it is small enough delta that I feel comfortable, my gamma is what gives me the willies. But I am content knowing that my risk is +/- 40,000 shares -- there is a certain relaxation that washes over you when you know you're truly screwed -- in this case, I've made my peace with the 40k share net exposure.

arb.
 
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