I'm inclined to agree, because I think big compounds elicit a greater metabolic response. Best bang for the buck, and all that. But at the end of the day, the best workout is the one people continue to do, because they like doing it. As long as the workout includes some key compounds and allows for proper recovery, I'm pretty sure it'll pass muster.
Set extensions?
- Thread starter Frederick Foresight
- Start date
I agree with that for sure.
The big mistake people make is to think the body is a bunch of components instead of an operating unit. This leads people into working muscle parts on ridiculous split routines. Their body never recovers. The idea is to stimulate, not annihilate, the muscles, feed them, rest them and repeat. With split routines a natural bodybuilder never "heals" the damage from the last workout and they've already done 2 more workouts.
Spot training doesn't work.
I don't know. While I favor full body workouts and have been doing them for a number of years now, in earlier times I did a split routine (ABA BAB) and did quite well with it. It's all about the volume and recovery. And I can tell you that I would not be able to presently recover from the volume I did in those days, and I'm pretty sure I was overdoing it even then. However, I suppose I'd do okay with a split routine if I dialed back the total volume compared to what I did in the '90s and early 2000s. But, like you, I presently favor whole body workouts. I don't know if they're necessarily better, but I do know I like them better. I still go all out but, yeah, I'm all about the recovery now.
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And, sure enough, as it happened with previous dabbling with set extensions, even doing one drop set for each of pull ups and dips has made me slightly weaker in those exercises over a period of time. I recall posting a while back in another thread that when I dropped either the drops set(s) or forced reps, I'd get a little bit stronger over time. So despite my decision to reduce the quantity of extensions, it's still taking its toll in my recovery. As I noted in my second post quoted above, my choice is to reduce the volume or decrease my training frequency. Since I'm down to only one full body resistance workout per week (excluding cardio), I decided after my last workout on Wednesday that I will be dropping the drop set.
One of the things I liked about the drop set(s) is that it added a bit of rep volume to an otherwise very compact workout routine. So to offset what would be a reduction in reps, I've decided to try doing the pull ups and parallel bar chest dips unweighted. However, I will slow the rep speed from about 2-1-3 to 3-1-4 or 4-1-5, or whatever is necessary to keep the reps below 20 at full concentric failure. Until now, weighted pull ups and dips were the two exercises I've been doing at the fastest pace in my present routine, for reps of about 8 and 9 respectively. I will either have to do dips slower than pull ups to reach failure at the same number, or content myself with more dip reps than pull ups at an equivalent pace.
I realize that, for all intents and purposes, up to about 20 reps per set is not superior to 10 or so reps , and vice versa. But since I will be doing only a single work set of just a handful of exercises, I take comfort knowing I'm getting a bit more volume in, now that I'm discarding the drop sets.
I'll take the usual measurements of chest, arm and leg the day before my next workout and see if anything changes over the next month or two, although I don't expect my legs to be affected all that much by the change in pull ups and dips.
Actually, I'm not really expecting any changes at this point, but I certainly would not welcome any atrophy.Thoughts? Prayers?
A bit of an update here. Yesterday was my third workout in as many weeks where I did pull-ups and dips slower and unweighted. I can say this: slowing down can be humbling. I clocked my pull ups yesterday, and I was only able to do 10 perfectly strict reps over a 90-second period. That averages 9 seconds per rep, but it was very slightly less on average because I kept trying for a few seconds or so on the last rep and did the negative to finish even slower than for the first 9 reps. I should point out that I only paused for a second at the top of the movement, and never at the bottom, where I slowly and fluidly shifted from lowering to lifting.
It took me longer to recover from slow reps unweighted than it did from faster reps weighted. I'm guessing I was able to reach failure with a better "granularity" for lack of a better word. I wasn't specifically looking to average 9 seconds a rep, it just worked out that way. Last week I did 13 reps at a very slightly faster pace but just as strictly. I'd like to keep the rep pace in the 8-second range, but I don't want to think about timing while doing the set. Rather, I'll just gravitate towards it over time, adjusting from workout to workout until I get it ~right.
As an aside, I haven't done supinated chin-ups in a few years because, over time, doing them weighted caused my elbows and one of my shoulders grief. I decided to try them again, this time unweighted and slow, as with the pull-ups, and it went well. But I will need more than a 3-minute break after the pull-ups to do them justice. Whereas I do the pull-ups with a hand-width wider than shoulder-width grip on each side, the chin-ups feel right when I do them just inside shoulder width. In the past, I had done them with my hands very close together - a couple of inches apart, which may possibly have contributed to the joint discomfort that would develop over time. I don't know; just guessing.
It took me longer to recover from slow reps unweighted than it did from faster reps weighted. I'm guessing I was able to reach failure with a better "granularity" for lack of a better word. I wasn't specifically looking to average 9 seconds a rep, it just worked out that way. Last week I did 13 reps at a very slightly faster pace but just as strictly. I'd like to keep the rep pace in the 8-second range, but I don't want to think about timing while doing the set. Rather, I'll just gravitate towards it over time, adjusting from workout to workout until I get it ~right.
As an aside, I haven't done supinated chin-ups in a few years because, over time, doing them weighted caused my elbows and one of my shoulders grief. I decided to try them again, this time unweighted and slow, as with the pull-ups, and it went well. But I will need more than a 3-minute break after the pull-ups to do them justice. Whereas I do the pull-ups with a hand-width wider than shoulder-width grip on each side, the chin-ups feel right when I do them just inside shoulder width. In the past, I had done them with my hands very close together - a couple of inches apart, which may possibly have contributed to the joint discomfort that would develop over time. I don't know; just guessing.
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Are you still using this intensity technique? And, if so, how frequently are you using it, and how are you faring with it?
Baron
ET Founder
I'm curious about what your fitness goals are at this point and where you currently stand in relation to those goals?
Good question. If you had asked me that question years ago, I would have said that my goal was to gain as much muscle as I naturally could, and to be fit and healthy. Looking back, I think I overdid it on the effort side. Certainly by any definition of HIT standards, anyway. Presently, my goals regarding adding muscle are less clear. I still want to remain fit and healthy, that goes without saying, but now I am more attentive to the cost regarding any possible addition of lean muscle mass. And I'm fairly certain it's something of a moot point, because I don't think I can realistically add much muscle, if any, given that I've already worked out pretty much my entire adult life. Not that I'm an especially notable specimen by any stretch but, at 60, my best days are behind me as far as physique goes.
Presently, I'm doing what Arthur Jones had suggested. Whereas in the (distant) past I was, for all intents and purposes, testing the limit of how much exercise I could tolerate, presently I'm fiddling with the dials, trying to determine how little I can get away with for a similar, or almost as good, outcome. As you may know from my previous posts, I've reduced my volume and frequency considerably in the last 5 years or so whereas I've upped the intensity from time to time to just past failure. In my more distant past, I never really went past momentary concentric failure.
For the most part, I cannot definitively attribute my reduction in size, including about a quarter inch from the arms, to the reduced frequency and volume. It might be due to the reduced volume and frequency, or getting older, or both. Maybe I'm holding a little less water because I'm a bit more careful with my carbs now than I was then. Who knows. But I have not enjoyed my workouts as I do now in a long, long time. And they are at least as intense. I find that gratifying, and that helps ensure continuity.
So, bottom line, I want to look forward to working out (which I do with my current volume and frequency), I want to go absolutely all out when I'm at it, and I want to maintain my lean muscle mass, or slightly increase it, if possible. (I'm trying slower rep cadence, as noted in a prior post, to see if this change stirs up anything.) Oh, and I want to get leaner. I was at Costco yesterday and I bought a new bathroom scale because my old one is breaking down. Not that I was looking for it, but the one I bought also does body composition. It only cost about $20, so I'm not expecting much beyond the weight measure being accurate. But I've been thinking about getting a bit leaner for a while now, and I don't like the body fat % this machine is giving me. I'm hoping it's not accurate, but as with all these bioelectrical impedance things, the trend's the thing.
And what about you? What are your fitness goals, and where are you in relation to them?
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Baron
ET Founder
What exactly IS your current volume and frequency?
I want to achieve and maintain single digit body fat, kind of like Clarence has all these years. 8% or 9% is fine. I don't necessarily care about getting lower than that. In a perfect world, I'd like to end up at about 175lbs at that bodyfat level. I think that would be my best look. In terms of where I stand in relation to that, I don't have the exact answer because I haven't had my bodyfat checked lately, but I know from what I'm seeing in the mirror that I'm not quite there yet.
I'm right there with you. My scale has been telling me between 19% - 21% bodyfat for the last 7 years, no matter what my bodyweight has been along the way. So either I have no ability to get leaner at all or there's something up with these goofy impedance machines.