"Service Sector" for the most part = Euphenism for Shit Jobs

Quote from Cesko:

So what would you do in order to save those jobs??? Please tell me what's the solution?
I think that ByLoSellHi was making an observation. An observation need not necessarily be accompanied by a solution. However, now that you ask, outsourcing jobs does not appear to be the solution. And while free enterprise should essentially remain free, perhaps tax incentives that support companies which outsource important jobs are also not the solution. And yet, as I understand it, companies that outsource high-paying jobs receive all manner of incentives. At least that was the case a while back. Is it any different today? I don't know. I'm asking.

ByLoSellHi, it it true that the Bush Administration actually tried to reclassify fast food workers as part of the manufacturing sector? I vaguely recall some furor about reclassification, but I don't recall the specifics. If it is indeed as you describe it, then it is rather telling. Why would the Administration seek to reclassify something "downward" if growth in the service sector aggregate over the manufacturing sector was a indeed a good thing?
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

I think that ByLoSellHi was making an observation. An observation need not necessarily be accompanied by a solution. However, now that you ask, outsourcing jobs does not appear to be the solution. And while free enterprise should essentially remain free, perhaps tax incentives that support companies which outsource important jobs are also not the solution. And yet, as I understand it, companies that outsource high-paying jobs receive all manner of incentives. At least that was the case a while back. Is it any different today? I don't know. I'm asking.

Another excellent point that I was remiss to leave out. Thanks for reminding me, TD.

If you don't believe TD, yes, the U.S. government has provided MASSIVE tax incentives for companies to outsource jobs. Here's a stellar example: Stanley Tool Works.

Google 'outsourcing' and 'Stanley Tool Works' for just one example of how our government is not only not trying to prevent the offshoring of high wage jobs, but is encouraging and accelerating the trend, subsidized with your tax dollars.
 
I find it freakin' hilarious when liberals attack outsourcing.

Other citizens of the world should be denied entry level jobs on the tech express? In my mind it's the PURPOSE of free markets to distribute wages to the cheap and willing. Too many lib's are true economic apartheid types.

America is a net WINNER on the outsourcing front.

This past weekend I replaced my cable modem. An easy swap except for issues with my router.

Lo and behold Linksys in India. A nice guy in New Delhi got me hooked up pronto. Now given that my router cost something like $49.95 could Cisco remain in business if some tech guy in California took my call?

And don't even go there if your going to say "Tashiba in Detroit could be trained to work these jobs".
Quote from Thunderdog:

I think that ByLoSellHi was making an observation. An observation need not necessarily be accompanied by a solution. However, now that you ask, outsourcing jobs does not appear to be the solution. And while free enterprise should essentially remain free, perhaps tax incentives that support companies which outsource important jobs are also not the solution. And yet, as I understand it, companies that outsource high-paying jobs receive all manner of incentives. At least that was the case a while back. Is it any different today? I don't know. I'm asking.
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I find it freakin' hilarious when liberals attack outsourcing.

Other citizens of the world should be denied entry level jobs on the tech express? In my mind it's the PURPOSE of free markets to distribute wages to the cheap and willing. Too many lib's are true economic apartheid types.

America is a net WINNER on the outsourcing front.

This past weekend I replaced my cable modem. An easy swap except for issues with my router.

Lo and behold Linksys in India. A nice guy in New Delhi got me hooked up pronto. Now given that my router cost something like $49.95 could Cisco remain in business if some tech guy in California took my call?

And don't even go there if your going to say "Tashiba in Detroit could be trained to work these jobs".
Pabst,

If you read my earlier post, you will see that I believe that free enterprise should essentially remain free.

A company that seeks to outsource a high-paying job at the expense of a US worker to another country in order to save money should probably have the right to do so. However, given that the company is already going to be saving on labor costs, does it also need the various tax incentives of one form or another. A company's obligation is primarily to its shareholders, provided that it does not engage in illegal activity. Fine. But what is the justification for the government to provide tax incentives to companies that are appropriately looking after their own interests but at the expense of the general domestic economy? Why do the outsourcers have to have it both ways? Talk about entitlement!
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

...ByLoSellHi, it it true that the Bush Administration actually tried to reclassify fast food workers as part of the manufacturing sector? I vaguely recall some furor about reclassification, but I don't recall the specifics. If it is indeed as you describe it, then it is rather telling. Why would the Administration seek to reclassify something "downward" if growth in the service sector aggregate over the manufacturing sector was indeed a good thing?
 
I agree completely. The govt is more interested in representing the agendas of corporations than the general population.


Quote from Thunderdog:

Pabst,

If you read my earlier post, you will see that I believe that free enterprise should essentially remain free.

A company that seeks to outsource a high-paying job at the expense of a US worker to another country in order to save money should probably have the right to do so. However, given that the company is already going to be saving on labor costs, does it also need the various tax incentives of one form or another. A company's obligation is primarily to its shareholders, provided that it does not engage in illegal activity. Fine. But what is the justification for the government to provide tax incentives to companies that are appropriately looking after their own interests but at the expense of the general domestic economy? Why do the outsourcers have to have it both ways? Talk about entitlement!
 
Well I certainly agree. "Special interests" tax wise are completely against my laissez faire philosophy.

Also, in no way was busting YOUR balls, I just happened to quote your post as a frame of reference for my soap box grandstand....

As always, I enjoy your well expressed opinions.
Quote from Thunderdog:

Pabst,

If you read my earlier post, you will see that I believe that free enterprise should essentially remain free.

A company that seeks to outsource a high-paying job at the expense of a US worker to another country in order to save money should probably have the right to do so. However, given that the company is already going to be saving on labor costs, does it also need the various tax incentives of one form or another. A company's obligation is primarily to its shareholders, provided that it does not engage in illegal activity. Fine. But what is the justification for the government to provide tax incentives to companies that are appropriately looking after their own interests but at the expense of the general domestic economy? Why do the outsourcers have to have it both ways? Talk about entitlement!
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

As usual you're a bastion of common sense.

For five decades American children have heard, "get an education or face a life of dreary, monotonous work on an assembly line."

"Blue collar" jobs have been leaving our shores for over a generation. Any one who thinks this is a new trend has their head up their ass.

Yes most people would rather be a claims adjuster for 24k than hauling shit in the sun for the same wage.

If one's skill set is no more developed than that of an Asian or African than why in the world would or should you be paid more than a third world denizen.

I don't know many traders with a sense of entitlement.

Loser's whine about their cards.

I'm sure many on this board are HAPPY that jobs are being lost on exchange trading floors.

I was displaced by electronic trading. Just like a guy working in a Gary Indiana steel plant.

Tough cookies.

Learn to adapt or starve.

---------

Well said Pabst. We are in an age where information is king. The game is changing, but in the end the the free markets always benefit the most. I think we will see other countries close the wealth gap with us over the next 100 year and that is inevitable.

With that said, our standard of living will continue to rise, even though it won't rise as fast as 3rd world countries.

Along with that our poor will continue to reap the benefits of better technology, health care, transporation, communication, etc.
 
Quote from ByLoSellHi:

It's amazing how the total lame ass media trumpets (as they're told to do) the expansion of the 'service sector' as being a positive economic development in the U.S.

The reality is the overwhelming majority of 'service sector' jobs are the drudges of societal aspiration. Most 'service sector' jobs involve cleaning bathrooms, waiting tables, staffing the desk at Avis or other such menial, low wage, and almost always 'no benefits' type of work.

That's what the U.S. is becoming; a banana republic where even the bananas are imported.

The only thing that has kept consumer spending alive and well for the last 5 years, as the true backbone of our economy (high tech and high skilled manufacturing) was being gutted was rising property values and the extension of seemingly infinite consumer credit to anyone with a pulse.

Now that the residential property boom has reversed course, look for the amount of defaults on mortgage debt and consumer debt to keep rising at an accelerating pace.

Does anyone remember the Bush Administration's attempt to reclassify fast food workers as being employed in the "manufacturing" sector, as they argued that these people were 'assembling' goods?

Manufacturing, especially of the technically advanced sort, has always been the backbone of the financial health of this country. America rose to superpower status when its factories employed workers churning out high-value products that were consumed domestically and globally.

It's too bad that both right wing and left wing imbeciles that are now the stewards of the future refuse to do anything about the fact that what remains of these jobs will soon be gone for good.

If you look at the base we still retain, it is at deathly ill auto companies or part suppliers, or in industries protected by government subsidies or contracts (Boeing, General Dynamics, etc).

These jobs are safe for now because foreign countries buy planes from Boeing as a means of relieving the pressure of massive trade surpluses they are running with the U.S. (no single purchase does more to reduce these surpluses than buying expensive aircraft), and because we have a war in Iraq that is fueling a boom among domestic defense contractors. These won't be permanent fixtures of our economy - the war will ultimately wind down, and foreign nations will eventually procure more aircraft from other sources, especially when the U.S. loses leverage over them, and as new companies arise in Asia and elsewhere to take on Boeing

The big money being raked in by those in finance and equity related jobs in areas like NYC and Boston will inevitably come under strain, as well, when the next protracted secular bear market arises (it's not a question of if but when).

And the boom in commodity prices, especially oil and metals, that is propping up economies such as Houston, Tulsa and South Dakota won't last forever, as neither will the lame ass ethanol fueled corn craze that is propping up the farmbelt.

When most Americans come to realize they've been fed horse shit for the last 5 years about the true health of the economy, when they can no longer count on residential real estate appreciation or endless pools of consumer credit, it will finally dawn on them how - even the most sheepish among them - how their political leadership sold them down the river. But it will be too late.

Agree those are the **** jobs in existence.
 
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