Seriously, can anybody trade the ES?

Quote from bighog:

austinp


I found my own way and i bet the farm others that are winning traders found their own way also. This game is not learned from a book, etc. YOU develope your own way....
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I hear so many whining about the market since yesterday but I see the same movements in all three markets ES, NQ, and ER... then I realized that the guys are not able to adjust to the choppy market conditions; they are stuck to one ideology of trading, the same way, just pure price action but not able to make any attempt to adapt.

It is however a good time to learn to prepare for now and the next market because it will not always stay the same forever.

sg20
 
Personally i look for "RUNS" in ES. In my book a "RUN" is a trade with 5 handles or more potential. Sure when most of us start out in futures we camwe from stocks. I position traded stocks and never daytraded stocks. When i moved over to Futures the game was faster so i adjusted by going to lower time frames. Once i settled on daytrading only i traded the FULL SP500 over the telephone, back then it was $500 a single handle. I traded approx 9 other futures but mostly swing traded them, ags, energy, metals, whetever. I daytraded the 30 year bond also before i dropped it when i found the ES new electronic doodad was easier to trade because the signals worked better. Bonds do not trade like the SP500. I settled on the Es.

Trading the ES is easier if one trades seperate accounts for seperate tactics depending on what the price action dictates at any moment in time. EXAMPLE: for captuering "RUNS" you start the day with your favorite ORB trade and take it from there. lets say in one account your goal is to catch the runs and in account #2 you can, might do some range trades, work the retraces etc.

In most days there are what i call "DEAD ZONES", these are areas between a level, etc that are best left alone because you are in a waste land of no signals. Any trader that thinks he/she neds to be in all the time is overtrading. I refuse to trade noise.

A few signals to look at for the different accounts, you decide:
+6/-6 open range breakout trade, 1st hour breakout, 9in mornings your main objective is to catch the run sure, avoiding whipsaws is also VERY important in mornings because it is not uncommon to make a couple small lossers, maybe a couple more scratches before you get what you are looking for, always remember in the morning the pit sessions daily range has not yet shown its colors....you want to catch your part of that range daily. Other signals once the day progresses can be HOOKS, flags for continuations (most runs have 3 legs to make), you can work retraces, 9retraces are "NORMAL" and you should expect them, work the retrace with a continuation HOOK etc as a very good add-on if you are up to it. Watch for "KEY" reversals to alert you for a reversal, 2 bar reversals are also watched for, etc. LEVELS, call them support/resist etc, thats MY BREAD and BUTTER. RUNS to the next LEVEL is where the money is.

IN your mind.........visualize where the big dogs will want to go if this or that LEVEL is hit, work the levels.

have fun
 
You will never learn how to dance until you step on some toes..........in trading you are your own worst enemy until you are your own best friend.
PS, in 2nd account if you want you can do range trading by selling strength WITHIN the range at top of the range and buying weakness at bottom of the range, simply have the STOP on either side if a BREAKOUT happens. DO not trade unless you have clear objective and a clear price spot where you are wrong. If wrong you do what you must or give the game up bacause if you can not have SOLID DISCIPLINE, you will be a 90%er, loser.

See ya on the battlefield on Monday ..
:cool:
 
Good info...Thanks

Quote from bighog:

Personally i look for "RUNS" in ES. In my book a "RUN" is a trade with 5 handles or more potential. Sure when most of us start out in futures we camwe from stocks. I position traded stocks and never daytraded stocks. When i moved over to Futures the game was faster so i adjusted by going to lower time frames. Once i settled on daytrading only i traded the FULL SP500 over the telephone, back then it was $500 a single handle. I traded approx 9 other futures but mostly swing traded them, ags, energy, metals, whetever. I daytraded the 30 year bond also before i dropped it when i found the ES new electronic doodad was easier to trade because the signals worked better. Bonds do not trade like the SP500. I settled on the Es.

Trading the ES is easier if one trades seperate accounts for seperate tactics depending on what the price action dictates at any moment in time. EXAMPLE: for captuering "RUNS" you start the day with your favorite ORB trade and take it from there. lets say in one account your goal is to catch the runs and in account #2 you can, might do some range trades, work the retraces etc.

In most days there are what i call "DEAD ZONES", these are areas between a level, etc that are best left alone because you are in a waste land of no signals. Any trader that thinks he/she neds to be in all the time is overtrading. I refuse to trade noise.

A few signals to look at for the different accounts, you decide:
+6/-6 open range breakout trade, 1st hour breakout, 9in mornings your main objective is to catch the run sure, avoiding whipsaws is also VERY important in mornings because it is not uncommon to make a couple small lossers, maybe a couple more scratches before you get what you are looking for, always remember in the morning the pit sessions daily range has not yet shown its colors....you want to catch your part of that range daily. Other signals once the day progresses can be HOOKS, flags for continuations (most runs have 3 legs to make), you can work retraces, 9retraces are "NORMAL" and you should expect them, work the retrace with a continuation HOOK etc as a very good add-on if you are up to it. Watch for "KEY" reversals to alert you for a reversal, 2 bar reversals are also watched for, etc. LEVELS, call them support/resist etc, thats MY BREAD and BUTTER. RUNS to the next LEVEL is where the money is.

IN your mind.........visualize where the big dogs will want to go if this or that LEVEL is hit, work the levels.

have fun
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yes, solid info bighog... I agree with it all 100%

Twilight approaches... time to go bullhead fishing. Been waiting for this all day. Have a great weekend!
 
I believe there are a few reasons why some make it.


1. They start in a position to not need to make a living from it. The
need for steady money like a weekly paycheck will corrupt your thinking and
force you to deviate from your plan of action that was so well thought out
prior to the heat of the battle.

2. They do not need the money that they loose. The enormous amounts of
money that it requires to learn to daytrade would exceed most people's
lifetime income. What makes the number of successful daytraders so low is
that even the few who could make it, dont have enough capital to endure the
learning curve.

3. They do not give a flying _uck about anything or anyones opinions of
what the market will or might do. The very news and opinions that surround
them becomes the mortar for their brick wall of defense that protects their
completely independent thinking.

4. They do not follow the crowd, and there is no pressure on them to
conform or perform. One absolutely must not be in a position to be held
responsible for anything that you do. Total freedom from both personal and
monetary obligations are a MUST, this alone eliminates 99.9%.

5. They have incredible discipline to not buckle under pressure. They have
a perfectly clear head and understand fully what they do and how they do it.
Battle wounds and memories of defeat are more valuable to them than the
money.

6. They do not daytrade with the goal of making money. Quite the
opposite, they would be just as happy in any type of intellectual challenge
that requires the extraordinary inverted thinking and brilliance required to
win at an individualized sport.

Mark Brown
 
Quote from MarkBrown:

1. They start in a position to not need to make a living from it. The
need for steady money like a weekly paycheck will corrupt your thinking and
force you to deviate from your plan of action that was so well thought out
prior to the heat of the battle.

Mark Brown
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That one was key for me. I used to approach trading as "I have to make x amount of money today" and I had some issues. Once I realized that was part of the problem my profits improved tremendously.

I still have daily money goals, but they are not the focus, they are just an afterthought. I focus on the process and end up hitting my goals without a problem. Most days. And the days I don't, oh well, not that big a deal.

I think its important to HAVE money goals, but money should not BE your goal. If that makes sense. I know it helped me.
 
Quote from allenhobbs:

The big dogs that I know are waiting for those classic technical setups, whether it be breakout, fibs, or floor trader pivots, to FADE the moves, not go with the crowd. I can't remember how many times I've seen the big dogs run the price to take out obvious stops and then reverse for a 2-3 point move. Happens every single day.

As far as trade management goes, I think the probabilites of success work better with scaling out of ES, due it its back-n-fill characteristics. Alternatively, if you want to avoid scratch trades, just pop this thing for 2 or 3 trades for a point each and call it a day (easier said then done).
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Do you know how they do that? They obviously don't single handedly bring down the market.
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

I understand what you are saying, but I don't look at it that way. The reason I prefer NQ is that it provides me with more reliable setups than ES for the manner in which I trade. Further, it allows for a tighter initial protective stop. For me, setup reliability and the ability to squeeze initial protective stops to a minimum trumps any commission considerations.
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Yeah NQ wasn't too bad. The lack of liquidity makes it a bit irrational though. Not sure if it still is that way, but it was two years ago.
 
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