Seriously, can anybody trade the ES?

Quote from Thunderdog:

I find NQ to be far more accommodating and am surprised that it gets so little air time here at ET.
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I personally trade the ES but have poked around in the past with NQ. The thing I just couldn't get over was the only $20 per point vs ES $50. That made sense during the market peaks of 2000 when the NQ was trading at nearly 3X the ES. However, now it's 1.5X ES.

so, right off the bat I feel like I've got to double my size on the NQ vs what I would trade on the ES. The doubling of commissions eats into my profit a little more than I am comfortable with.

like I said, I don't trade the NQ but this was what turned me off about it. Given how much the NQ has come down since 2000 (over 50%) I wonder if they'll consider raising the $20 per point upwards a bit. I'm sure this issue has been discussed elsewhere so don't mean to take the thread too far off topic.
 
It wouldn't be as choppy if the pit and the emini had the same tick size. The pit traders arb every tiny breakout making the emini choppy.

Quote from Dr. Zhivodka:

The ES is not a breakout market it's a reversion to the mean market ...given certain constraints.
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Very true but knowing this means it's something that you can use to your advantage, not necessarily your disadvantage. You can deal with this one of two ways -- patience and money management, preferably both.

Quote from erToo:

It wouldn't be as choppy if the pit and the emini had the same tick size. The pit traders arb every tiny breakout making the emini choppy.
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The Facts: the best traders in the world trade the ES. If you don't think you can compete with them, stay away. Maybe it's easier with other instruments. I don't know.
 
<i>"so, right off the bat I feel like I've got to double my size on the NQ vs what I would trade on the ES. The doubling of commissions eats into my profit a little more than I am comfortable with."</i>

When the ES makes a 2pt move, the NQ has made a 5pt move

When the ES makes a 4pt move, the NQ has made a 10pt move

Each event is equal dollars in distance. The difference is, NQ will move thru those ranges in a straight line, while ES zig-zags its way along.

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Why do you think ES traders go thru such intricate lengths of stop management to exit trades? Ever notice how many - most of them scale out of partial positions soon as price action has moved a few ticks in favor? Why is that? Are ES trades anxious to get out of trades that just filled because they are full of confidence, or filled with angst?

If flush with confidence that each trade will run for distance, why would anyone ever bother to scale out at all? Scale out methods are one defense for choppy markets. The ES is king of back & fill in the eminis.
Commission costs are far less important than net profit per trade. I'd be very surprised if ES traders didn't average least amount of $$ per turn of all.

None of this means the ES is untradable. It's just very difficult for many reasons. To each their own, and each symbol has its own unique quirks. All are similar, but uniquely different.
 
Agree with everything you said here austinp. Scaling is the way to go on the ES and what works for me. If the market offers me money I take a little off. There are times when I get another trade and other times when the trigger keeps going. It all comes out in the wash but the way to smooth out the noise of the ES is partials.

Quote from austinp:

<i>"so, right off the bat I feel like I've got to double my size on the NQ vs what I would trade on the ES. The doubling of commissions eats into my profit a little more than I am comfortable with."</i>

When the ES makes a 2pt move, the NQ has made a 5pt move

When the ES makes a 4pt move, the NQ has made a 10pt move

Each event is equal dollars in distance. The difference is, NQ will move thru those ranges in a straight line, while ES zig-zags its way along.

*
Why do you think ES traders go thru such intricate lengths of stop management to exit trades? Ever notice how many - most of them scale out of partial positions soon as price action has moved a few ticks in favor? Why is that? Are ES trades anxious to get out of trades that just filled because they are full of confidence, or filled with angst?

If flush with confidence that each trade will run for distance, why would anyone ever bother to scale out at all? Scale out methods are one defense for choppy markets. The ES is king of back & fill in the eminis.
Commission costs are far less important than net profit per trade. I'd be very surprised if ES traders didn't average least amount of $$ per turn of all.

None of this means the ES is untradable. It's just very difficult for many reasons. To each their own, and each symbol has its own unique quirks. All are similar, but uniquely different.
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If you are afraid to run in the pack with the BIG DOGS then stay on the porch. There is no better or easier doodad to trade than the ES. Why?

Because more eyeballs are watching the same setups you are watching and YES the worlds best traders will trade the most liquid doodad out there. ED is liquid but is not cool for plain ole direction trading.

With a well practiced trade plan and usual discilpine, well DAM GOOD money management stuff the ES and levels are a piece of cake to trade. Breakout trading is where the bacon is and as long as one knows how to handle false breakouts you are gonna do just fine. Breakout failures are part of the game, no one aside from yourself ever told you this ws gonna be easy in the beginning. (well aside from a flock of birds that are lost in the storm)

If you know how to trade false breakouts you can even make money, that is not your goal so any small profit from a false breakout is just chump money to use as bait to catch the fat runs.

We all fished as kids, many timews we got nibbles and tried to set the hook only to lose the bait. Then after sitting BOOM, LUNKER hits the line, you set the hook and reel that lunker in. Good day over all it then is. There is NO sure thing, never was never will be. learn how to run with the BIG DOGS and do not be scared. .. :cool:
 
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