Good post SS, I agree its all about dedicating yourself to one market and if you are going to do that, might as well choose one that is difficult to outgrow. Really focused and persistent people will eventually figure out ways to make money and then its a matter of improving. The ES allows you to size up quite a bit without disturbing the normal action. If you can sneak in with 20 lots, you can sneak in with 50+.
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Seriously, can anybody trade the ES?
- Thread starter ChkitOut
- Start date
Quote from The Swordsman:
Good post SS, I agree its all about dedicating yourself to one market and if you are going to do that, might as well choose one that is difficult to outgrow. Really focused and persistent people will eventually figure out ways to make money and then its a matter of improving. The ES allows you to size up quite a bit without disturbing the normal action. If you can sneak in with 20 lots, you can sneak in with 50+.
I am not fortunate to trade such size but by watching the tape and volume I would think one can "sneak" through much larger than even 50. I don't see why even 200 would cause significant problems.
also...if the pits do eventually die out completely as some predict, that volume will also be migrated to electronic.
agree, disagree ?
I used 50+ in my example, but that could certainly mean 200+ in alot of situations.
Point is you can throw a lot of size in without disturbing the ebb and flow.
Point is you can throw a lot of size in without disturbing the ebb and flow.
Quote from ts888:
I am not fortunate to trade such size but by watching the tape and volume I would think one can "sneak" through much larger than even 50. I don't see why even 200 would cause significant problems.
also...if the pits do eventually die out completely as some predict, that volume will also be migrated to electronic.
agree, disagree ?
<i>...because at some point, a trader has to pick something and settle down. Expertise comes easiest when one specializes."</i>
The ES is probably toughest emini of all to trade. Once someone learns the language and makes peace with it, they're over that hump. Reaching that point is the key.
Traders who are just getting started or searching for a comfort zone would probably do much better in another symbol. But, that's not something which can be advised... it needs be experienced for the lesson to be learned.
ER2 is hands-down my favorite. If it weren't in a state of flux, I'd personally never open up a different chart. Remains to be seen what happens when it migrates completely away from CME.
This week was like the old days again. Plenty of size on the dome, 25 to 100+ contracts on both sides of the market thru five levels. Blocks of 20-lot to 40-lot trades went off all day long, only moving the tape one - two ticks in that process. Go figure.
I guess they all have their moments, each symbol trades differently enough to have its own dialect. Once fluent in the language, it gets easier.
The ES is probably toughest emini of all to trade. Once someone learns the language and makes peace with it, they're over that hump. Reaching that point is the key.
Traders who are just getting started or searching for a comfort zone would probably do much better in another symbol. But, that's not something which can be advised... it needs be experienced for the lesson to be learned.
ER2 is hands-down my favorite. If it weren't in a state of flux, I'd personally never open up a different chart. Remains to be seen what happens when it migrates completely away from CME.
This week was like the old days again. Plenty of size on the dome, 25 to 100+ contracts on both sides of the market thru five levels. Blocks of 20-lot to 40-lot trades went off all day long, only moving the tape one - two ticks in that process. Go figure.
I guess they all have their moments, each symbol trades differently enough to have its own dialect. Once fluent in the language, it gets easier.
Quote from ChkitOut:
Does anybody that trades the ES feel like when you're wrong you lose money and when you're right you lose money! LOL.
Meaning when you make a good entry price has to touch or dip below your entry about a thousand times before price moves along to profit world.
It loves to shake you out of your position.
http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87467&highlight=secret
it doesn't have the side effect of kool-aid.
I find NQ to be far more accommodating and am surprised that it gets so little air time here at ET.
I can and do using a system (more like a mechanical trading plan).
On a discretionary basis. I lost all my money.
On a discretionary basis. I lost all my money.
This is the problem that 95% of the ES traders face. It's been my experience that traders use two tools to trade with -- timing and stops. So, essentially, this strategy means you must be right to win and even if you are right you may still lose because your timing may not be perfect. The way you solve this problem is money manangement -- the most neglected, yet, the most important tool there is, imo.
Every bought a double bottom (lower lows) and set your stop a touch below the second bottom and it comes down and tags your stop on the downward sloping support line, only to advance 8 or 9 points after that event? If I take a double bottom with a lower low and it turns into a triple bottom with lower lows I will NOT stop out on that. In fact, I will do quite the opposite -- I will add to the trade at strategic, planned intervals. I will never take a full position with 1 trigger. I always keep reserves to fight a battle I didn't anticipate. Think of it this way....if you have the ability to put on a 100 lot and you take 2 and it goes against you, you are using 2% of your account and have 98% in reserve. Now suppose that move against you is just a fluctuation. What should you do? This is the million dollar question of course, and no easy answer can be provided but, you should at least consider the possiblity of adding to the trade, stopping out and sizing up, or perhaps the correct thing to do is just to stop out completely. There's no right or wrong answer here but learning the <b>art</b> of money management is imperative to successful trading.
Every bought a double bottom (lower lows) and set your stop a touch below the second bottom and it comes down and tags your stop on the downward sloping support line, only to advance 8 or 9 points after that event? If I take a double bottom with a lower low and it turns into a triple bottom with lower lows I will NOT stop out on that. In fact, I will do quite the opposite -- I will add to the trade at strategic, planned intervals. I will never take a full position with 1 trigger. I always keep reserves to fight a battle I didn't anticipate. Think of it this way....if you have the ability to put on a 100 lot and you take 2 and it goes against you, you are using 2% of your account and have 98% in reserve. Now suppose that move against you is just a fluctuation. What should you do? This is the million dollar question of course, and no easy answer can be provided but, you should at least consider the possiblity of adding to the trade, stopping out and sizing up, or perhaps the correct thing to do is just to stop out completely. There's no right or wrong answer here but learning the <b>art</b> of money management is imperative to successful trading.
Quote from ChkitOut:
Does anybody that trades the ES feel like when you're wrong you lose money and when you're right you lose money! LOL.
Meaning when you make a good entry price has to touch or dip below your entry about a thousand times before price moves along to profit world.
It loves to shake you out of your position.