September Trading Journals

Hitman, If 4 hours are enough for someone to trade profitably or not is really up to them. If they want half a mil as a goal is also up to them.

The point I believe the others are trying to make is that there has to be a more effective style out there. Commissions (even bullets) are a necessity of the game.

However, you must step back and evaluate your game when (as you have already pointed out) most people in your office as well as yourself, would be positive were it not for the commissions. This fact clearly points out that you need to trade less shares and hit larger R trades. It is a simple deduction.

Trading large volume and producing small R produces a huge barrier to profitability. It requires that your win/loss rate be rather high. My guess would be between 60%-70% if not better.

I for one do not believe that life is about working hard. It is about working smart. You can arrive at your own conclusion.
 
OK....i can't keep my big mouth shut. i totally understand where you are coming from hitman. i too, work at a professional firm and realize that your daily volume is actually quite low. i avg around 20k to 30k shares a day (non summer months) and i feel like a big wuss!!!!! i too have traded next to the big boys and realize the only way to make the real $$$$$$$$$$$ is to trade 300K to 1 million shares a day. during the non summer months i avg 1 to 2 losing days a month and go home flat every day. btw, there is nothing wrong with taking a second job, it may relieve some pressure. you are definitely on the right track and will meet your goals in due time. good luck!!!!!!!
 
Babak:

With the exception of lottery events like IPO's, stock options, inheritance, name one successful individual who makes mid six figures without taking him/herself to the limit for a few years at least.

Sniper:

I think one of my weakness is that I always want to catch as much as I can, before the game started I was literally loaded with plays, and I had to just execute them. My plan really clicked. The problem is that whenever I see something on the fly I have a tendency to catch it.

Looking back at the trades I don't see why the hell I shorted WM today, a total mystery, the thing was above the 200 SMA. I need to be more careful about my research.

The Tony Oz play I am actually familar with, except I use black/red candles instead of above/below yesterday's close. In intraday trading tho it is quite a bit different . . . Not to mention his examples are all picture perfect trades with no failures . . . That said, I didn't think of the 3 day's in a row criteria, that will definitely help percentages.

Yes, I have to admit I relied on bullets too much, there were a few plays I could have got filled in and I didn't do them because I didn't want more bullets than 4.
 
I have to agree with Hitman that it sounds like much of the friendly advice is being offered by people who don't trade for a living. Plain and simple. Everyone wants the 2-4 pt trades but how much are you risking on the downside to get it? And, again, are you making a living doing the swing trades, or do you just trade (honestly, now) to put your money to work rather than stick it in a CD?

Everyone would love to make 1-3 trades a day, kick back, let the high R multiples roll in, and go to the beach for most of the day. But unless you're working with a humongo account (so that tiny percentage gains translate into large absolute dollars) how do you make a living out of it??? And mixing daytrading with swingtrading sounds like a good idea, but it's like mixing apples and oranges, very different mindset.
 
For further clarification:
- I trade futures rather than stocks, so have a relatively narrow field of focus (and therefore less research to do)
- I am more of a position trader, so don't need to follow the market closely during the day
- Trading is my only source of income, so I take it very seriously
- I make more money in trading than I could in a regular job
- My annual returns are around 100% and have never had a drawdown > 10%

Hitman, I don't think my comment was stupid. It was based on years of personal observations of people daytrading from the floor or dealing rooms through to people trading a $250m a/c.

Anyway, this is my last post here.
 
Zentrader:

My sincere apology, as I wasn't aware of your trading vehicle/background/experience/size. It was a very frustrating day for me, started with inability to put up bullets when I most needed them, then a bad execution on my part on a bad trade, and final hour mental collapse. It was my worst day in a month or two and then some guy hopped on and rubbed it in, I was a little frustrated.

Please feel free to drop any comment, I was too caught up in the fireworks.
 
Guys,

Don't assume that anyone who has advice that you may not like doesn't trade for a living or isn't successful. Different folks find different styles that work for them; keep an open mind. All of us have experimented with different styles using different time frames with different charts & indicators (just read these boards and it's clear). Along the way you eliminate what doesn't work and try to use more of what does. Everyone here is just offering there two cents, take it or leave it.

Two specific points:

1. regarding shorting - granted I don't have access to bullets and I'm sure there a great advantage, but to think they are the only way to short effectively is simply inaccurate. I may not short more than a thousand shares at a time but I usually don't have a problem. In fact, my NYSE shorts usually get filled at a much better price than my order limit. And on the Nasdaq, shorting is often less of an issue since they use an upbid rule instead of an uptick rule.

2. regarding intraday & swing trading - certainly this is not mixing apples and oranges. What is so inconceivable to having a portion of your total equity tied up on swing trades in some issues while using your remaining equity to trade intraday? Nothing, I do it often. Is it really inconceivable to be swing trading Goldman Sachs, EBAY, & Brocade while intraday trading Home Depot, Broadcom, Cisco, Citigroup, & Lehman? The two can co-exist peacefully as long as you keep it straight in your mind what the plan is for each trade & execute accordingly.

Just my two cents! :)

Good Luck to all!
 
Originally posted by Magna

Everyone would love to make 1-3 trades a day, kick back, let the high R multiples roll in, and go to the beach for most of the day. But unless you're working with a humongo account (so that tiny percentage gains translate into large absolute dollars) how do you make a living out of it??? And mixing daytrading with swingtrading sounds like a good idea, but it's like mixing apples and oranges, very different mindset.
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In defense of swing trading, you don't make small percentage returns each month. 60%+ per month returns are possible and you don't have to sit in front of a terminal all day. Sure carrying overnight has risks, but you are also rewarded too with gaps in your favor so it's not all that bad. And as far as 1-3 trades per day, I maintain 10-15 positions constantly and roll them over from long to short every 1-10 days. And you can make a living on a $50,000 account If Hitman mastered swing trading (which would add no time to his day since most prep is done in evening) along side daytrading he could really improve his returns. And as far as size, the skies the limit with swing trading because you have more time to get in and out of positions, and you can spread it across many stocks.

My suggestion to Hitman was friendly advice and he shouldn't assume too much about the source.
 
hey hitman, just curious, does worldco let you swing trade or you got to be flat by 4pm? I guess swing trading is less profitable to them then trading volume- huuhhh?!?!?!!!
anyways, just curious if prop firms let a newbie to swing.
thnx
 
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