Self-sabotage. Why do we suffer and how to eliminate it.

Quote from optionpro007:

Self sabotage and fear are two different things.

For example you have "no fear" taking this position.

But wouldn't it be considered "self-sabotage" to take this trade to start with ?
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I agree with Optionpro on this ... Self-sabotage and fear are 2 totally different things.

I'm going to relate a way some people self sabotage themself that have to do with the everyday not just trading ...

1. Think about how people use 'comfort food' when they are under stress or to help themselves relax. These could include foods that are definately bad for them - ice cream, cookies, cake etc ... But why do people do it? My guess it's the slight pleasure that eating the cake or cookies give in a time that they feel a void. So even thou the cake and cookies may be bad for them they still want to fill that void - and going to the frig is such a easy thing to do.

Many years ago I remember listening to tony robbins tapes and he came up with a point about something. That everyone has these behaviours that are self-sabotaging. (Going to stick with the eating the cake and cookies one). It has to do with having a void there and wanting to fill it - and somehow in your past you have been conditioned (either by yourself, your parents, tv comercials, your taste buds, your friends etc ...) that eating some cake and cookies is a pleasurable thing and it helps to fill this void).

What Tony Robbins suggested was that you needed to clear you mind of this habit of reaching for the cake and cookies (from what I remember it was sort of a meditation process and a really deep thinking about how terriable the 'thing' is ...) and then give yourself something else that is pleasurable that would fill this void that is good for you.

So; for example, like the cookies/cake thing; if you like fruit - everytime you have a void or are feeling down instead of reaching for cake/cookies have your favorite fruit in the house so you can eat that instead.

Your dealing with habits that have become ingrained in your psyche and behavior.

Let's take a look at a trading example ...

Chasing the trade ... I'm sure many of us have done this many times even thou we know it could be very detrimental to us.

According to Tony Robbins we are going to have to go through a process of really thinking of 'chasing a trade' as terrible and look at how wrong it could be to ourselves/our family/our spouse/our health (really take a look at it deeply (very deeply)) - and then think of how instead of chasing a trade we will think about how we can successful implement another plan (weather its getting on a pullback - or looking for another market - or treating ourselves to a day off ... you name it ...)
So everytime we are tempted to 'chase a trade' we need to do what we planned we would do - and we need to have a pleasurable reward from it (thoughts or other ... (no naughty thoughts you guys lol).
And you need to keep doing this Every time you are tempted to chase a trade that you missed or messed up on.


anyways I just thought I'd share what I remember from Tony Robbins audio tapes. I'm no expert on the subject. And personally I havn't implemented much of this; but when I think about it now it sounds like a good idea (and it was like 8-9 years ago I listened to these tapes so there must be something good in there if I can remember them this long :)

So I'm not sure you can have your cake and eat it too ;)
 
Quote from CaptainObvious:

All of which are the result of one thing....lack of discipline. Now what causes lack of discipline? Ego? Maybe! Poor preparation? Maybe! Lack of conviction? Maybe? Is there a theme going here? Yes! I just don't think you can pin this down on any single emotion. On any given day, any, or all of those emotions can be out of control. Like anything else, the more you do it, the more comfortable you become. The real question is, will the money run out before the comfort level comes? Bottom line.....improper capitalization to begin with is the root cause. Why people do that is a whole different topic.
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No, In your attempt to make it obvious you are oversimplifying by claiming "lack of discipline."

If you look at current research on the brain you'll find that we respond differently in cold mode and in hot mode (much of the research looks at sexual practice choices). And the research suggests that the parts of the brain activated in hot mode are different to those in cold --- so a well adjusted young man (in cold mode) steps way beyond the limits in hot mode.

Trading also has a hot mode and a cold mode. I suspect that discipline can help reduce the slip into hot mode. I suspect that meditation (vipassana which focusses on slowing down thought to perceive clearly) may also help. But I doubt very much that its either simple or (captain)obvious :)
 
Let me give it a guess, because guessing is all I can do.

Self-sabotage. What about lack of self-worth? Self-pity? Self-denial?

What about this? Suppose you have a dream to become extremely wealthy. You then subconsciously keep failing, and give it 75% effort, even though you think you are giving it 100%, which is EASIER to do, so as to only reach 1% of THE DREAM. Then you still know that 100% of the dream is still out there, whereas if you trade almost perfect and give it 100% instead of 110% like you should to actually achieve the dream and you work and suffer plenty, you only get 5% of the dream and it doesn't look like you can do better than 5%, which kills the big dream, which isn't worth the effort and you might as well quit trading and get a miserable but EASIER job with less stress and worry and doubt. So failure or self-sabotage is an EASIER way of getting or keeping 100% of that dream alive, even though it is just imagined.

I have never written such garbage, oh, I have too.
 
A simple analogy to the OP's predicament would be to go to a foreign country and know perhaps 2-300 words of the language spoken in that country. You meet people and want to talk to them but you can't go beyond the rudimentary level. Yet you believe 2-300 words to be enough and blame your upbringing or whatever for ruining the quality of your interactions in this foreign country. The only way to solve the problem is to learn alot more words (like 5-10000), practise and most importantly IMMERSION. Then you will push through the cultural barriers if you are sincere. It is hard work learning a foreign language but it gets easier as you go.


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Quote from steve0617:

This of course assumes you already KNOW how to trade and are simply acting against your system. This does NOT APPLY AT ALL if you don't actually know what to do and are simply 'winging it' hoping for the best in your trading results.
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Exactly, 99% of people don't know how to trade and they go of on the self discovery tangent when instead the should learn how to trade properly. Want to know how to eliminate sabotage?

Go learn:

1) Fib extensions, retracements, time fib, fib arc as dynamic supp/resist.
2) Pivot points
3) Divergence theory
4) Elliott wave theory
5) Price and oscillator patterns
6) Candlestick patterns
7) Multiple time frame analysis
8) Top notch data feeds and computers. (lol some people are 'traders' and use free charts).
9) A living situation conducive to conservative trading

etc. etc. (these are just the tip of the iceberg - just as examples and not necessarily what is right in your particular market). And not out of some weekend course or what you read on the internet - spend countless hours trialing and studying on your own - and I mean thousands of hours.

Go and learn as much as you can.
Then, watch the trading day live with whatever you know and you should have pre-planned on just about every contingency that can crop up and have an action plan for acting on it. This means being discretionary yet confined within your system. Do this for a long time before putting real dollars on the line - learn many of the tricks on how your system can be screwed with and how to work around it. Don't worry about gut feeling - that comes when you are an 'in the flow pro" .

If you STILL are screwing up - go see a shrink or whatever therapy you care to choose.



Before that though, you are sabotaging because you dont know what is going on for the most part (nobody knows 100%) and your mind wants to avoid future pain by withdrawing you from the trading process making you think that it is some "progrmming fault". When all along it is a lack of seriously cool trading knowledge.

It's as simple as that.

The application of that knowledge by the way will come in due course once you have a firm idea of such concepts.
 
"Self sabotage" is an opinion not a feeling.

When I get strong feelings I spend time experiencing them and "get into them even more." I figure feelings are there for a reason and I stop and experience them. Sometimes I breathe in and out for a while and/or meditate. I also live in the moment of now. These techniques all seem to work together to help me somehow.
 
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