Self-Perception

Quote from coolweb:

The market can never humble a skilled operator unless it was out of the blues like a drug company with a failed patent without notice and drops 45%

Humbling is an excuse for "gamblers" , basically when you are being humbled it usually means your bets were not in check and you were over betting (emotions).
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You obviously haven't been around this game long enough. And being humbled doesn't mean getting your ass kicked. In this context, we're just saying that being humble means knowing that the market is bigger than you... and it can crush anyone who doesn't repect it.
 
Quote from Nofear777:

The only barometer for a trader is his own pnl. Nothing else.
The bottom line is the bottom line.
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So you measure your own self-worth/accomplishement by your PnL?

That seems a bit harsh considering how challenging certain days can be. Some days, not losing too much money is the most critical aspect.

Today was a tough day for me. Kept taking small losses and small winners all day and was never able to make any real progress.

I was trading well but the moves were not easily readable and my focus was draining quickly towards the close. I let one trade go too far into the red and cut half the losing position at the close (I usually carry a core position and add/reduce during the day).

I gave myself a pat on the back for taking away size from this trade. Given my frustration and fatigue I would've waited until my stop to just take me out but I overcame that and booked a loss early.

Well I ended the day -700, a small loss considering the circumstances and overall I feel good about my trading. Considering how draining today was for me, I kept good focus even after many setbacks and more importantly I kept losses under control. The types of emotions I was controlling today would've most likely amounted to a 3k loss a few years ago and a resulting anger with myself. Well, now losses have no effect on me and neither do winners. I guess that is what I am getting at - winners and loser should have no effect on one's self perception. It is tough to isolate that link though.

Generalyl, in my trading it is days like today that make all the difference. They are difficult but the key is to not get frustrated and not get in your own way. You have to have confidence to take the losers early and not get feelings of frustration or lose any confidence. It is purely psychological at this point, the winners will always take care of themselves and do everything you can to not let the losers bite you too hard.
 
Quote from rimshaker:

All I know is that the successful traders are usually the quiet ones, who attribute their successes to being lucky. It's the ones who talk endlessly about their trades that I avoid. Being humble in the market says a lot.
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yup when i keep my mouth shut i make money,
when i blabber about my trades to my buddies you know what happens
 
Quote from Mike805:

This is a blurb taken from a morning newsletter I subscribe to:

"Awareness is the key to high performance. Top performers are thoughtful, and completely aware of what it takes to perform skillfully. Dr. David Dunning, a psychology professor at Cornell University, argues that poor performers are "blissfully unaware of their incompetence." They overestimate their abilities. Their intuition tells them that their performance is superior, yet objective estimates show their actual performance is under par. For example, when people are asked to take a test measuring abilities, such as thinking logically, writing grammatically, and spotting funny jokes, they tend to overestimate their performance: they think they are performing well above average, yet their actual performance is in the bottom 25%. These biased estimates aren't restricted to taking tests. People in a variety of settings and skill areas overestimate their abilities. Debate teams in college tournaments wrongly think they are eloquent debaters. Hunters who are bad shots think they are expert marksmen. And medical residents think they know how to diagnose patients more accurately than they really can. Studies have even shown that when people are offered money to estimate their performance accurately, they still can't do it. Behavioral economists have similarly demonstrated that novice traders and investors overconfidently trade beyond their skill level."

Not this is something most of you don't already know about, but I think this says a lot about ego and its uselessness.

Is there some empirical evidence for this?

Is it beneficial to have someone keep you "in-check" so to speak or do the markets eventually humble all those who think they are better than they actually are?

The irony is that a good confidence level requires a balance of positive/negative self-perception.
Mike
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Well, hell, everyone needs to think well of themselves and their skills.

Now the truth about trading. Trading knowledgeably is not attempted by the all and sundry who try to become (or stay) independent traders. Best it gets is interpretations of live price on a chart to try anticipate what comes next. That takes you about as far as knowing how to drive a car by looking at its outside color.
:)
 
Quote from coolweb:

The market can never humble a skilled operator unless it was out of the blues like a drug company with a failed patent without notice and drops 45%
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the market has the ability to humble anybody.
 
First you should explain what your definition of humbling means.

1) You blow out your trading capital = humbled?

Thats more like the issue of the trader then market "doing things to you"


2) You being stopped out = humbled?

Nope, Trader picking wrong places to enter

3) Being stopped out multiple times = humbled?

Nope, Markets just telling you you are being chopped, stay out for your own good.

4) Being Gapped down because of some drug company getting their license revoked = humbled?

You just have bad luck, should have known the risks trading pharm companies.

5) Losing 10 trades in a row (same as being stopped out) = humbled?

Nope, Again market is not doing this to you, You are doing this to yourself.



So exactly what is the meaning of being humbled.

A person is only humbled in the begining when he is LEARNING many of the novice trading skills , such as price action, how to recognize trends, how to avoid things, how to place stops correctly.

After he finished the intermediate level, there is very little places where the market can HUMBLE you.

You think a Warren buffet is every humbled just because he got stopped out?
I think not, it just means that position was not working.


The market never does things to traders, only the traders to themselves.

Theres only 2 methods for a trader to lose money after he finished the novice stages of learning

1) Unexpected things
Bad luck

2) Stopped out.


Both things do not humble me, maybe they humble you?
Some people are humbled easily I assume.
 
Quote from coolweb:

First you should explain what your definition of humbling means.

1) You blow out your trading capital = humbled?

Thats more like the issue of the trader then market "doing things to you"


2) You being stopped out = humbled?

Nope, Trader picking wrong places to enter

3) Being stopped out multiple times = humbled?

Nope, Markets just telling you you are being chopped, stay out for your own good.

4) Being Gapped down because of some drug company getting their license revoked = humbled?

You just have bad luck, should have known the risks trading pharm companies.

5) Losing 10 trades in a row (same as being stopped out) = humbled?

Nope, Again market is not doing this to you, You are doing this to yourself.



So exactly what is the meaning of being humbled.

A person is only humbled in the begining when he is LEARNING many of the novice trading skills , such as price action, how to recognize trends, how to avoid things, how to place stops correctly.

After he finished the intermediate level, there is very little places where the market can HUMBLE you.

You think a Warren buffet is every humbled just because he got stopped out?
I think not, it just means that position was not working.


The market never does things to traders, only the traders to themselves.

Theres only 2 methods for a trader to lose money after he finished the novice stages of learning

1) Unexpected things
Bad luck

2) Stopped out.


Both things do not humble me, maybe they humble you?
Some people are humbled easily I assume.
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humble as in hurt you. you sound like you are a newbe.
 
vhehn,

Say no more, Just saying "hurts you" already tells me how you view trading, unless you care to elaborate

if you had to

a) get stiches after a big lost?
b) can't walk for a few days?
c) emotionally heart broken after you got stopped out?
d) can not speak to anyone because of intense anger of the markets disobedience
e) panic attacks once the marketmaker decided to run your stops

f) some other tragedy you care to elaborate?


:D


Traded since 99 and still hurt these days huh?
Tsk Tsk Tsk...
 
Quote from coolweb:

Some people are humbled easily I assume.
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Okay - some things that humble me. I'll add to this as these things occur.

-- Took a 2k share position on a 12 dollar stock. Added 2k as it went to 13 and held. Got annoyed waiting for movement (low volume and no action) - kept thinking I should take my 50k and plop it elsewhere. I did. Sold at 13 and change. Watched the stock gap-up the next day and follow-through to 16. No love for me, I know I have little discipline - thank you market for teaching me this about my-self, I forget about my flaws - you keep reminding me but I do not listen. Next time I will hold longer. I am humbled by your ability to teach me these lessons, they are valuable yet I am still trying to evolve into something that is not a fool.

-- So I pulled 1.8k out of you (the market) today. By no means does that amount to anything, fuck - I might as well believe I am the best thing to ever walk this earth - yep (sarcasm here). Someone probably took 1.8mil in a matter of hours. I am so small it doesn't even matter what I do let alone what I believe. Thank you for providing perspective. It really is just a number you know (sigh).
 
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