Seeing a psychologist

Quote from Htrader:


Of course, if you don't have a successful strategy, then psychological analysis probably will not help you very much. But as you become increasing successful, I have found that winning larger amounts of money does something to your personality...you start getting feelings of superiority, etc. and that can affect your trading performance dramatically, and usually not in a good way.
More...

The best traders I have known over the years never had this problem. My observation is that the best traders were always very even tempered individuals: they consistently made good money year after year. They were never people that sought counsel outside of themselves to achieve their goals. The long term traders that I know that are still in business are dependable, rock-solid types of personalities.

Just my observation .....
 
you make some great points...

ET can be a form of group therapy... also could consider it a cyber-team even though it is each for themselve in the actual trading arena.
 
Quote from CalTrader:



The best traders I have known over the years never had this problem. My observation is that the best traders were always very even tempered individuals: they consistently made good money year after year. They were never people that sought counsel outside of themselves to achieve their goals. The long term traders that I know that are still in business are dependable, rock-solid types of personalities.

Just my observation .....
More...

When was the last time a successful trader that you know has been rock solid for the past several years told you they had personal issues that had interfered with their trading long before they met you ?

When was the last time you asked that dependable, rock-solid trader...

when was the last time he/she had a serious personal issue he/she was dealing with (death in the family, divorce, seperation, drinking problem, drug problem, relationship problem and any other common life problem)?

then...after the above question when was the last time you asked that particular trader (I'm not talking about online trading pals) how did they perform during the time span of such problems?

We are all humans...surely all those dependable, rock-solid types traders you personally know can't be that perfect.

Right?

You'll be surprise what dirty laundry or troubling things that people you personally know...won't tell you for whatever reasons.

You'll be surprise at how many have seeked professional help...and won't tell you for obvious reasons.

My worst ever trading day loss occurred about 2 weeks after a very close family member died and I then went into a short drawdown duration.

My longest drawdown period occured during a period when an ex-girlfriend was falsely accusing me of being the father of her child (blood test eventually fixed that problem).

Sorry...I guess you left things wide open via not clarifying when you said they never had this problem.

Simply asked any of your even-tempered trading pals how did they performed after events such as some of the things I mentioned above or in my previous post in this thread (common life events except for the false fatherhood thing).

I'm really curious because of all the traders I personally know...every single successful and non-successful trader had negative affects on their trading while dealing with events of their own doing or not of their own doing in their personal lives.

That's life and to assume that your successful trading pals are not affected (them and/or their profits) by common events in life...

I'm a little surprised.

P.S. Think about this statement. I know a trader that has consistently made good profits the past 5 years. However...2 of those years...back to back...while in a period of custody battles with her ex-husband about her kids...

during this period...her trading profits were only about 25% of her norm (dealing with lawyers, marriage counselors during the initial seperation because he was reluctant, dealing with what her children were going through and dealing with her own self-doubts as a good spouse...did affect her trading).

Yet, for 5 years...she consistently made a profits...good profits to support her family.

Profits aren't always a sign of vitality...problems will eventually catch up to those profits if they go unresolved.

NihabaAshi
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:



When was the last time a successful trader that you know has been rock solid for the past several years told you they had personal issues that had interfered with their trading long before they met you ?

.....

NihabaAshi
More...

Things come up in every persons life: its part of living and being part of society. My observation is that successful people (not only in trading but any other profession) have the ability to balance the stresses of life and still get things done. I'm not sure that a lot of outside help changes people that dont have this trait: it sometimes improves their situation but doesn't really seem to change a person too much: just my observation.

As far as knowing the details of someones life I can only speak for the companies that I run: before we hire (or indeed before we commit major dollars to any business partner) we submit potential applicants / partners to an extensive investigation. If something turns up then they are rejected. This has proven the most effective way (for us) to avoid problem hires or business partners.
 
Quote from CalTrader:

...As far as knowing the details of someones life I can only speak for the companies that I run: before we hire (or indeed before we commit major dollars to any business partner) we submit potential applicants / partners to an extensive investigation. If something turns up then they are rejected. This has proven the most effective way (for us) to avoid problem hires or business partners.
More...

CalTrader,

Yes...I've heard of such policies (I have mixed feelings about such)...

I became aware of such many years ago when a few ex-college buddies (now lawyers) told me about such.

In fact, one told me that they routingly do not hire any lawyers going through certain personal crisis.

Something as little as going through a divorce will keep that lawyer from being hired at his firm.

He himself got the third degree and almost didn't get hired because he was a bartender while at law school at a bar that was being sued by the family of a loved one killed by a drunken driver that had too many drinks at his place of employement when he worked there.

Note: He was not working the night the guy had one too many and was not involved in the litigation...that's the only reason why they decided he would not drag to the firm any dirty laundry.

A little scary.

Where I currently live...a friend was turned down a position at a hospital because she had once taken a medical leave of abscence from her previous medical position because her daughter her died and she required psychiatric help along with medication.

Now 3 years after recovering from that traumatic event in her life...she gets turned down a position (being punished in my opinion) because of such.

I asked her if she was going to fight their decision after she found out why they turned her down...she said no because it will only prevent or delay her from finding another position.

(dammed if you do...dammed if you don't)

The more I think about it...the more I think this corporate policy should not be applied across the board without some exception clauses in place to make sure good candidates aren't being mixed in with the bad apples.

NihabaAshi
 
Quote from CalTrader:

My observation is that successful people (not only in trading but any other profession) have the ability to balance the stresses of life and still get things done. I'm not sure that a lot of outside help changes people that dont have this trait: it sometimes improves their situation but doesn't really seem to change a person too much: just my observation.
More...

Yes and no. Whether the ability to "balance stresses" is genetic or learned is subject to debate. However, it can be learned if it doesn't come "naturally".

There is a short-term, solution-oriented style of therapy called Reality Therapy, related to behaviorism but not so cut-and-dried. Its objective is not to find and explore the underlying cause of the behavior, but to address the behavior itself and modify it.

For example, if "fear" is causing one to cut profits short (as, possibly, in this case), one finds whatever is triggering that fear and modifies or eliminates the triggers so that the fear response is not brought into play. This can be relatively quick and relatively simple compared to the sort of analytical therapy that would require delving into the root causes of the fear itself.

If an individual is so conflicted and so confused that he can't even complete a rewarding end-of-day review, he can create or be given a checklist to go through in order to find exactly what worked and what didn't and why. If he can then be specific about his mistakes and work toward correcting those mistakes, he can then avoid the fear situation and its triggers.

Whether he can avoid addressing his fears in other contexts is another issue, but we all have fears, and few of us ever address them, yet we are able to function normally and even successfully.

--Db
 
As others in this thread mentioned I believe some people are naturally born with the right psychological make-up that makes them great traders. However there is no doubt in my mind that much of their psychological skills can be 'learned' by those of us not so fortunate.

In Trading like any other performance sports Golf, Chess etc I believe therapy can play an important role. First it can undo any psychological impediments that may be keeping us from reaching our goals. If you read the work of Van Tharp, his main thesis is that there are psychological blocks that prevent us from trading successfully or up to our potential. Secondly performance therapy can help us with gaining the right psychological makeup ie discipline, consistency etc.

For those of us who have migrated to trading from other professions trading is no rocket science. Most rudimentary trading books have all the rules listed, following your system, cutting losses etc. but for some reason we don't follow them.

The field of performance psychology has a come a long way in the last 10 years. If you are interested in seeing a psychologist I would avoid 'talk' therapy, which is much like you see in Woody Allen movies. But find therapists who specialize in NLP, EMDR, EFT etc

Unlike most other 9-5 occupations which most of us are trying to avoid, Trading offers tremendous monetary upside, so why settle for mediocrity.
 
I liked the comment along the lines of why are you thinking of going to a psychologist? On first read of your post, to be honest, it seems like maybe you want a therapist to talk to, or listen to you. Which probably wouldn't do squat for your trading.

Now, if you've a list issues and you're looking for more specific solutions to address them, not commiserate with you but get at the root of the problem, then I'd agree with what's been previously stated... do 2-3 or three sessions max. I'd space them out and trade inbetween, trying to address each issue.

Just some cents.

André
 
went out with a shrink... told her i had an Oedipus complex, and that she looked very much like my mother. It worked.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top