Second War Has Begun

[Hello_Dollars]

Ahh, finally some light among the heat. Very few seem to recognize or care to acknowledge that Iraq is but a skirmish in the earliest stages of a broader war of civilizations. Or, more accurately, a war between the civilized world and the uncivilized heathens who despise all that we stand for, resent us for our power and wealth, and will not be satiated until we are all lying beneath ash and twisted metal.

Perhaps had our enemies not, as Bernard Lewis points out, turned anti-intellectual on the eve of the Renaissance, thereby relegating what had arguably been the most advanced cuture on Earth to certain decline and ignominy, peaceful coexistance could be achieved through negotiation and common ground. Unfortunately, we live in the real world and the only peace that will be achieved in this battle must be forged by the sword. Inevitably, that carries a price in blood and treasury. But to avoid paying it now will without doubt result in an exponentially higher cost eventually.

So our moment has come and it is now incumbent upon all of us to prove that we are up to the task of doing that which is necessary to defend our freedoms and way of life for the good of humanity as generations before us have done when confronted by the great evils of their day. In other words, we must prove that we are not French.

 

[electron]

Quote from lrm21:

Yet their are no news story of this. 24 million people and the focus on the few thousand scumbags with Kalishnikovs.

There are only so many of them with guns because there are not enough guns for every Iraqi. Yet? That's why you do not hear about the millions. But my guess is that the millions hate Americans now as much as they hated Saddam before. If you gave them guns who would they use them against? I am afraid you will not be able to guess it...

As far as your war against Islamic Fundamentalists is concerned this is indeed a very novel approach. I wonder why Brits did not launch a war against all Catholics to fight IRA that is blamed for deaths of many civilians. One possible answer is this: it takes someone as civilized as Dubya to do this...

 

[electron]

Quote from Hello_Dollars:


So our moment has come and it is now incumbent upon all of us to prove that we are up to the task of doing that which is necessary to defend our freedoms and way of life for the good of humanity as generations before us have done when confronted by the great evils of their day.

The freedom to oil, you mean?

BTW, fighting for freedom is typical American bullshit that the rest of the world cannot take anymore. Americans with their substandard education and blatant hypocrisy are the biggest danger to freedom on this planet. Do the names of Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan sound familar to you? Both are ruled by Stalinist type of dictators with whom the US has friendly relationships. These countries are about as democratic and their citizens enjoy as much freedom as people in the Middle East countries ruled by fundamentalists. So much about America fighting for freedom of other peoples. Give me a break!!

 

[Hello_Dollars]

Quote from electron:

The freedom to oil, you mean?

BTW, fighting for freedom is typical American bullshit that the rest of the world cannot take anymore. Americans with their substandard education and blatant hypocrisy are the biggest danger to freedom on this planet. Do the names of Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan sound familar to you? Both are ruled by Stalinist type of dictators with whom the US has friendly relationships. These countries are about as democratic and their citizens enjoy as much freedom as people in the Middle East countries ruled by fundamentalists. So much about America fighting for freedom of other peoples. Give me a break!!

Touch a nerve, did I? Well then, you must be French. Or worse, horror of horrors, Belgian.

Either way, I hereby decree you forbidden from trading in our markets. The liquidity you have heretofore provided, for which we are most appreciative, will be made up for by your neighbor Pepe. Au revoir, fruitcake.

 

[Saham]

Quote from ARogueTrader:

Young people should know this while there is still time:

If Bush is re-elected, he will re-institute the draft and draft young men to die in Iraq for oil.

If the Democrats had any brains, they would be talking to every draft age person who can vote and let them know their future if they don't vote for Kerry.

But what is Kerry's stance exactly on the Iraq war situation. I never heard.

Do you know?

 

[ARogueTrader]

Kerry's position is that Iraq was an international problem, and should have been addressed with an international solution, not a unilateral effort by America and a sprinkling of allies.

At this point he seems to be of the opinion that the world should unite again to help Iraq, the same way they did before we went into Afghanistan, and that we should do what we can to build a real coalition now to help Iraq and liberate our soldiers from going it alone.

Quote from Saham:

But what is Kerry's stance exactly on the Iraq war situation. I never heard.

Do you know?

 

[Saham]

Quote from ARogueTrader:

Kerry's position is that Iraq was an international problem, and should have been addressed with an international solution, not a unilateral effort by America and a sprinkling of allies.

At this point he seems to be of the opinion that the world should unite again to help Iraq, the same way they did before we went into Afghanistan, and that we should do what we can to build a real coalition now to help Iraq and liberate our soldiers from going it alone.

So if he were president today would he pull the US troops OUT and go back to the drawing board? Or would he continue to order troop fighting?

 

[Saham]

Quote from ertrader1:

What will be the overall outcome and pressure on the US economy as we learn that IRAQ was turned into another war, a war without Sadam. IRAN backing , althougth they have been quite, are backing Al Sedir, the NEW SADAM.

US is going to be sending more troops and we are gona have to roll into IRAN.

The GOVERNMENT can not continue to bullshit the public, RUMSFELD has made a lot of mistakes....the Shit is now just starting to hit the fan, a year after we entered IRAQ with troops.

Good thread, ER.

"Al Sedir, the NEW SADAM."

Nah, not so. Presumably you're talking about Muqtada al-Sadr but he is not the NEW Saddam, he is the SUPER Saddam.

Saddam was mainly of military origin. Sadr's father was a religious dude killed by Saddam: That deified him in the sight of millions of Shi'ite followers.

Sadr is the ultimate martyr. If the US sheds his blood there may be hell to pay with the other Iraqis. Resistance may increase exponentially.

So it's a catch 22 situation. US is screwed if it kills him; screwed if it arrests him; and screwed if it does neither or can't do either thus lets him build his following.

US is screwed in Iraq period at this point.

I think the best thing to do now is realize we've secured our position and got the job done removing Saddam from power with his potential possible WMD accumulation; Just leave and let the country have a slugfest party with its 99 factions causing endless civil unrest and wars.

In other words let them kill each other and not our troops. Maybe see what transpires in a year. We can always go back and nail the kingpin. Why put up with all the intercity riffraff now? Just to get more of our soldiers killed? It's pointless!

Gamal

 

[BloodTrader]

Quote from lrm21:

This is not the second war it's the WAR not just against Iraq but against ISLAMIC Fundamentalists and the oppressive dictatorial regimes that fund and support them.

This is a process and it's amazing that people are so shocked. Call Bush slow or not polished, hate the guy for his politics but he is upfront has said from day one since 9/11 that this is going to be a long war and different countries at different times, sometimes we won't see the success and sometimes we will witness the faliures.

The way Bush is pursuing this war, it will be the ruiniation of the US. Such incredible stupidity and arrogance.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Afghanistan

It will only get worse.

m

 

[BloodTrader]

Quote from ARogueTrader:

Young people should know this while there is still time:

If Bush is re-elected, he will re-institute the draft and draft young men to die in Iraq for oil.

If the Democrats had any brains, they would be talking to every draft age person who can vote and let them know their future if they don't vote for Kerry.

ART, maybe Bush can get all these gung ho right wing bullshitters from ET into uniform to go over and give 'em hell. HAHAHA, can you IMAGINE an battalion of these bozos, but at least we could feel good about using them as cannon fodder.


m