Hey, Autosuck. What a surprise. Patrick has jsut now made a post on a board. Now try to understand. There are many CEO's who still think they can earn themselves out of this - they can't. Once these guys get in your company, they don't leave. Ever. I've also seen Elgindy's list that the DOJ had, and it was some of the most well known stocks listed. So don't give me the 'all shit companies' argument. This stuff is illegal. But your question, which I answered, but obviously not to your satisfaction, is, no one knows. Now here's a guy who has spent tens of millions of dollars of his own money on the problem, a CEO with access to any records available to the company, who really doesn't have any idea who owns his stock. Why? Because it's a paper charade that the authorities cover. Now, see if you can understand what it must feel like to create a company, and then have it attacked illegally, because someone needs a sports car. And BTW, I think he's playing with the crowd a llittle bit, because the x clearing fails are probably five times the float in a stock like OSTK. Therefore, what is the point of filings, corporate voting, meetings, all the rest. Can you possible understand the seriousness of all of this? Do you ever go to Yahoo and look for 'Key Figures'? What good are they if Barry Minkow and the boys have it on their hit list? Did you see HLF today? Got rid of Minkow, up $1.63. So, what's up with that? Now, you tell me.
Here is the post:
Recs: 4 Re: OSTK Share Ownership
Oh, did someone catch the bashers in another lie? Why is today different from any other day?
I will share what I know in an attempt to clear things up a bit. I should first state I pay essentially 0 attention to which institutions move in or out of our stock (in fact, I am tempted to say "absolutely 0 attention"). Also, what I say below has appeared in recent interviews, so there should be no Reg FD issue: I put it out there on the off-chance some of my questions can be answered by you folks.
In recent weeks I have referred several times to ownership numbers, so I'll clear up the mystery and tell you that with one exception, the numbers I referenced in those interviews are in a place you can check them for yourself: the CNBC website. Go there ( http://www.cnbc.com/id/15837275?q=ostk?q ) and click "Ownership". If you search about 2/3 of the way down you will see that it says the Top 50 institutions own 106% of our stock. If true, that would be 106% X 21.7 = 23 million shares.
More curious to me, however, is the fact that nearer the top it says that there are 337 large block owners, and that they own 28.2 million shares. That is, 28.2/21.7 = 130% of the shares.
Now I don't know whether to believe CNBC about this. I suppose they are going from SEC filings. Who knows? Make up your own mind.
As I indicated above, there is one piece of data I dropped in those interviews that is not in a place that you can check for yourself, and that is, how many total shareholders we have. The system is so opaque, I cannot say for sure myself, but I can say what we are told by our transfer agent, and that is, there are 6,000 shareholders. Periodically, however, the reported number of shareholders drops to 2,000 for one day only (that day being any record date), then immediately springs back to 6,000 the next day. This happens over and over again. Make of that what you will.
So.... Do we have 6,000 shareholders? Let's say we do. That means: The top 50/6,000 = .83% own 106% of the stock. The 337/6,000 = 5.6% own 130% of the company. Which raises the interesting question, "If 5.6% large block owners own 130% of the firm, how much of the firm is owned by 100% of the people who think they own part of the firm?" Clearly the other 94.4% are smaller players, retail owners, and so on, so it will not be 20X the 130%. Is it 2X 130%? Or 1.1 X 130%? I don't pretend to know. And I don't pretend to know if we can trust CNBC's numbers. And I do not know what to make of the fact that our transfer agent shows 6,000 owners except on rare days when he shows 2,000.
I hope I have cleared up some of the weird squabbling. You folks now know what I know. I'd love to hear if any of you can explain this data.
Best,
Patrick
Here is the post:
Recs: 4 Re: OSTK Share Ownership
Oh, did someone catch the bashers in another lie? Why is today different from any other day?
I will share what I know in an attempt to clear things up a bit. I should first state I pay essentially 0 attention to which institutions move in or out of our stock (in fact, I am tempted to say "absolutely 0 attention"). Also, what I say below has appeared in recent interviews, so there should be no Reg FD issue: I put it out there on the off-chance some of my questions can be answered by you folks.
In recent weeks I have referred several times to ownership numbers, so I'll clear up the mystery and tell you that with one exception, the numbers I referenced in those interviews are in a place you can check them for yourself: the CNBC website. Go there ( http://www.cnbc.com/id/15837275?q=ostk?q ) and click "Ownership". If you search about 2/3 of the way down you will see that it says the Top 50 institutions own 106% of our stock. If true, that would be 106% X 21.7 = 23 million shares.
More curious to me, however, is the fact that nearer the top it says that there are 337 large block owners, and that they own 28.2 million shares. That is, 28.2/21.7 = 130% of the shares.
Now I don't know whether to believe CNBC about this. I suppose they are going from SEC filings. Who knows? Make up your own mind.
As I indicated above, there is one piece of data I dropped in those interviews that is not in a place that you can check for yourself, and that is, how many total shareholders we have. The system is so opaque, I cannot say for sure myself, but I can say what we are told by our transfer agent, and that is, there are 6,000 shareholders. Periodically, however, the reported number of shareholders drops to 2,000 for one day only (that day being any record date), then immediately springs back to 6,000 the next day. This happens over and over again. Make of that what you will.
So.... Do we have 6,000 shareholders? Let's say we do. That means: The top 50/6,000 = .83% own 106% of the stock. The 337/6,000 = 5.6% own 130% of the company. Which raises the interesting question, "If 5.6% large block owners own 130% of the firm, how much of the firm is owned by 100% of the people who think they own part of the firm?" Clearly the other 94.4% are smaller players, retail owners, and so on, so it will not be 20X the 130%. Is it 2X 130%? Or 1.1 X 130%? I don't pretend to know. And I don't pretend to know if we can trust CNBC's numbers. And I do not know what to make of the fact that our transfer agent shows 6,000 owners except on rare days when he shows 2,000.
I hope I have cleared up some of the weird squabbling. You folks now know what I know. I'd love to hear if any of you can explain this data.
Best,
Patrick