SEC charges GS with fraud

“Let’s say the government decides one day, ‘You know, we oughta listen to Che here, let’s throw the book at every firm and every executive that our people can make a case against. Because you know, gosh, it’s all about rule of law and blind justice, just like Che says.’ OK, so now this means indicting just about every serious player in finance, so they take down Goldman Sachs, they take down Citigroup, JP Morgan, BofA… and they also serve all the big funds who are at least as guilty, if not more. So they shut down Pimco, Blackrock, Citadel… maybe they indict Geithner and Summers, haul in some of Bush’s crooks… right?”

“Too bad they don’t serve popcorn here, this is getting good.”

“OK, now guess what you’ve just done? You’ve just caused the markets to completely tank. Remember what happened after the Lehman collapse? Remember how popular that made every politician in Washington? Still wondering why they coughed up a trillion bucks? They were scared for their lives; that’s why they voted for that bailout. You’d have done the same goddamn thing. But if we go after everyone guilty of fraud and theft, the market crash this country would see would make 2008 look like Sesame Street. Open that can of worms labeled ‘Fraud’ and the whole fucking economy collapses. You may as well prosecute people for masturbating. No one will know where the fraud investigation stops and who will be charged next—everyone will try to cash out, and the markets will tank to zero. And guess what happens when the markets tank to zero? Every fucking American with a retirement plan, or an investment portfolio, or a 401k—every state pension plan in the country, every teacher’s pension fund, every fireman’s pension—every last one of them will be wiped out. That’s what the Lehman collapse taught us.”

http://exiledonline.com/confessions...n-sachs-our-entire-economy-is-built-on-fraud/
 
Quote from nutmeg:

“Let’s say the government decides one day, ‘You know, we oughta listen to Che here, let’s throw the book at every firm and every executive that our people can make a case against. Because you know, gosh, it’s all about rule of law and blind justice, just like Che says.’ OK, so now this means indicting just about every serious player in finance, so they take down Goldman Sachs, they take down Citigroup, JP Morgan, BofA… and they also serve all the big funds who are at least as guilty, if not more. So they shut down Pimco, Blackrock, Citadel… maybe they indict Geithner and Summers, haul in some of Bush’s crooks… right?”

“Too bad they don’t serve popcorn here, this is getting good.”

“OK, now guess what you’ve just done? You’ve just caused the markets to completely tank. Remember what happened after the Lehman collapse? Remember how popular that made every politician in Washington? Still wondering why they coughed up a trillion bucks? They were scared for their lives; that’s why they voted for that bailout. You’d have done the same goddamn thing. But if we go after everyone guilty of fraud and theft, the market crash this country would see would make 2008 look like Sesame Street. Open that can of worms labeled ‘Fraud’ and the whole fucking economy collapses. You may as well prosecute people for masturbating. No one will know where the fraud investigation stops and who will be charged next—everyone will try to cash out, and the markets will tank to zero. And guess what happens when the markets tank to zero? Every fucking American with a retirement plan, or an investment portfolio, or a 401k—every state pension plan in the country, every teacher’s pension fund, every fireman’s pension—every last one of them will be wiped out. That’s what the Lehman collapse taught us.”

http://exiledonline.com/confessions...n-sachs-our-entire-economy-is-built-on-fraud/
More...

"Funny, I always thought life is what we make of it" - Jodie Foster as Eleanor "Ellie" Ann Arroway

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Quote from nitro:

I am going to go out on a limb:

1) Lloyd Blankfein is ousted.
2) A One billion dollar fine.
3) At least one person goes to jail.
More...
I am hearing $1B is comical. The smart money says $3-5B minimum if guilty.
 
Quote from nitro:

I am going to go out on a further limb. If the uptick rule were in place, GS would have triggered long ago, with people buying puts on GS like there was no tomorrow.

Do we really want an uptick rule on crooks?
More...
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AIG may want an uptick rule, dont really know if they do;
Citigroup tried to get the SEC to do just that.LOL Not that it helped them much anyway.

Senator Levin was quite mad at GS, maybe that was why he waged class warfare against them...Mr Blankfein narrowed his eyes at all the critical Congressional comments.

Its not clear if the Enron type trading will stick to GS , Or if chargesd are filed in that Federal criminal probe ?[differs from the SEC charge] .Even BP , in thier defense ,could well note they have no $318 million +/ fines against them /propane trading lately.

Don Bright Trading still like Goldman, so that's in thier favor,also.Wish Mr. Blankfein or someone would have asked Senator Levin why''Cash for Clunkers'' only applied to new autos, only,did NOT include buying used cars??:D
 
Talk of Goldman discussing settlement with the SEC. If they do, the thunk-thunk sound will be GS's balls hitting the floor after SEC castrates them.

GS actually went past 141 after the Buffett bounce, but yesterday was a pretty unusual day.
 
The books on the tragedy that is the financial system are coming out fast and furious to the point where I can't keep up with them anymore. But I think this one is worth adding to the list:

Confidence Game: How a Hedge Fund Manager Called Wall Street's Bluff (Hardcover)
~ Christine S. Richard

http://www.amazon.com/Confidence-Ga...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274981569&sr=8-1

One thing that made me go almost ballistic when I read it is this part from the introduction:

"...How was it that MBIA could write insurance on hundreds of billions of dollars of debt and yet tell its investors that it guaranteed only bonds on which it expected to pay no claims? In an article for Bloomberg Markets magazine called "The Insurance Charade," Darrell Preston and I exposed part of the secret by looking into various public projects that weren't supposed to be obligations of the taxpayer. Yet when the insured bonds issued to finance these projects threatened to default , taxpayers were called on to cover those losses. MBIA had a nearly perfect track record in the municipal bond market because it wasn't the real insurer of debt: Taxpayers were..."

Guess what, the consumer and the public in general are on the hooks in situations that we don't expect to be. Take for example the BP oil spill. People are trying to figure out how to punish BP for their negligence. So they say, ok, we will not buy BP gasoline. Then they realize, wait, that is some small business owner that we are screwing. Scratch that. Wait, I know, we will sell BP stock and punish them. Stock is up 5% today and it will be back up to previous levels soon. Ugh. Wait, we will fine them billions of dollars, we will in addition require them to clean every last drop of oil from the area. We will sue them for the lost revenue to shrimpers. Hmm, maybe we are getting somewhere?

Guess what, BP and the rest of their ilk will will pass those costs on to the people that buy their oil, and we will pay like it or not. Ultimately we are on the hook for just about any asinine mistake that corporations make, especially ones in a oligopoly (I wonder if that should have been spelled oilgopoly) market so crucial to the every day functioning of society.

If I never had to deal with a bank or an oil company again in my life...Give me a fusion reactor. Give me the ability to to pay my bills without a bank of parasites.


Quote from nitro:

It is so easy to get caught up in the passion of fraud, greed, scams, etc, that we fail to reflect on the root causes of bad choices we make as a country. So, if you are less interested in the soap opera, and more interested in the structure of business and how systems need to adapt in the future by learning from the lessons of this crisis, I strongly recommend these books:

13 Bankers: The Wall Street Takeover and the Next Financial Meltdown (Hardcover)
~ Simon Johnson (Author), James Kwak (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/13-Bankers-Ta...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271873307&sr=8-1

ECONned: How Unenlightened Self Interest Undermined Democracy and Corrupted Capitalism (Hardcover)
~ Yves Smith (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/ECONned-Unenl...cracy-Capitalism/dp/0230620515/ref=pd_sim_b_1


Fraud in the Markets: Why It Happens and How to Fight It (Hardcover)
~ Peter Goldmann (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/Fraud-Markets...1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271615208&sr=8-1-spell

At the very least, read the first and last chapters of these books, then if your interest is peaked you may find the rest very interesting. Believe it or not, these are very good writers and most of these books read like a thriller.
More...
 
The books on the tragedy that is the financial system are coming out fast and furious to the point where I can't keep up with them anymore.
---------------------

That's for sure.

I'm reading the Match King by Partnoy. Takes place in the 20's, surprising how little things change. Interesting point is back then, no 10k's, one paragraph financial statements and people bought the stock anyways, today you could hand out a 4 inch thick 10k, chock full of information and bada bing bada boom, corp's still lie and get away with it.

Also the book has a lot of "bubble" stuff happening with the general public back in the roaring 20's. You wouldn't expect a global economy back then but there was.
 
Quote from nutmeg:

The books on the tragedy that is the financial system are coming out fast and furious to the point where I can't keep up with them anymore.
---------------------

That's for sure.

I'm reading the Match King by Partnoy. Takes place in the 20's, surprising how little things change. Interesting point is back then, no 10k's, one paragraph financial statements and people bought the stock anyways, today you could hand out a 4 inch thick 10k, chock full of information and bada bing bada boom, corp's still lie and get away with it.

Also the book has a lot of "bubble" stuff happening with the general public back in the roaring 20's. You wouldn't expect a global economy back then but there was.
More...


Things never change, only recycle.

"The way you made money selling derivatives was by trying to blow up your clients." F. Partnoy, Fiasco, 1997
 
Quote from dtrader98:

Things never change, only recycle.

"The way you made money selling derivatives was by trying to blow up your clients." F. Partnoy, Fiasco, 1997
More...

I have exactly same thought. As the whole credit crisis was unfolding, Fiasco came to my mind more than once. I read it in late 2006, and was amazed at the "legal" schemes MS did, especially at Japan.

Liar's Pocker and Fiasco clearly explain what clients can expect from these firms, yet they still come back for more.
 
Nitro i want to start by saying i respect your opinion 100% of the time. I almost never disagree with you, however in this respect i think we might have differring view points. I remember Loyd Blankfein being called up in front of congress, and from a speculators point of view his initial assumption was accurate. He basically said "anytime a market maker or goldman is looking to sell something you should assume they are selling it cause they dont want it." Whether it is for moral reasons is nonmaterial, the bottom line is that goldman is selling it cause they think it is overvalued.

The whole idea of the stock market is that a seller meets with a buyer, both sides of that transaction assume the other side doesnt want it. So both sides assume the other side is the "loser." The fact of the matter is that only one side ends up a "winner," So with any transaction which pertains to the market someone will inevitably end up a loser.

Quote from nitro:

The books on the tragedy that is the financial system are coming out fast and furious to the point where I can't keep up with them anymore. But I think this one is worth adding to the list:

Confidence Game: How a Hedge Fund Manager Called Wall Street's Bluff (Hardcover)
~ Christine S. Richard

http://www.amazon.com/Confidence-Ga...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274981569&sr=8-1

One thing that made me go almost ballistic when I read it is this part from the introduction:

"...How was it that MBIA could write insurance on hundreds of billions of dollars of debt and yet tell its investors that it guaranteed only bonds on which it expected to pay no claims? In an article for Bloomberg Markets magazine called "The Insurance Charade," Darrell Preston and I exposed part of the secret by looking into various public projects that weren't supposed to be obligations of the taxpayer. Yet when the insured bonds issued to finance these projects threatened to default , taxpayers were called on to cover those losses. MBIA had a nearly perfect track record in the municipal bond market because it wasn't the real insurer of debt: Taxpayers were..."

Guess what, the consumer and the public in general are on the hooks in situations that we don't expect to be. Take for example the BP oil spill. People are trying to figure out how to punish BP for their negligence. So they say, ok, we will not buy BP gasoline. Then they realize, wait, that is some small business owner that we are screwing. Scratch that. Wait, I know, we will sell BP stock and punish them. Stock is up 5% today and it will be back up to previous levels soon. Ugh. Wait, we will fine them billions of dollars, we will in addition require them to clean every last drop of oil from the area. We will sue them for the lost revenue to shrimpers. Hmm, maybe we are getting somewhere?

Guess what, BP and the rest of their ilk will will pass those costs on to the people that buy their oil, and we will pay like it or not. Ultimately we are on the hook for just about any asinine mistake that corporations make, especially ones in a oligopoly (I wonder if that should have been spelled oilgopoly) market so crucial to the every day functioning of society.

If I never had to deal with a bank or an oil company again in my life...Give me a fusion reactor. Give me the ability to to pay my bills without a bank of parasites.
More...
 
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