Scott Ritter: "We will lose this war.."

Excellent interview. Ritter answers questions at the Alberta Intermedia Centre.

It's presented as a series of MP3s, and I recommend listening to them as the text version is incomplete and far too brief.

Ritter Interview
 
Quote from alfonso:


Then again, I never claimed that the military effort in defeating the Iraqi forces would be UNsuccessful (although I did wish it to be). So I obviously wasn't "wrong" about that.
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alfonso,

I'm curious. By posting Ritter's opinions and calling them 'excellent' it is obvious that you agree with them and/or endorse them. Then by that account is it not proven that you were wrong?

(let the squirming begin)
 
Quote from Babak:




alfonso,

I'm curious. By posting Ritter's opinions and calling them 'excellent' it is obvious that you agree with them and/or endorse them. Then by that account is it not proven that you were wrong?

(let the squirming begin)
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No squirming. If you actually bothered to listen to the interview, you would know that the talk about the military outcome was only a tiny portion of the whole thing. I never really held out much hope that Ritter was right on that call, but I did think that, having been a marine for so long, he'd have a better idea about it than me (no shit!), so I was prepared to entertain the idea that he might have been right in saying the US would lose this war.

Yes, his rather extreme proclamations of the US going home with its tail between its legs do cast some doubt on the quality of his other opinions, I'm prepared to acknowledge that. However, I do still think that the rest of his commentary (in that interview) was excellent.

It is my position that the entire US action regarding to Iraq has already been wrong. Future events aren't going to do anyting to change that. So I don't think that I can be proven "wrong" on this one, to be honest. I mean, peope obviously have different opinions to me on what the US has done, and those opinions all come back to a few key ideas about the proper way for nation states to interact with each other, and those ideas are pretty inflexible. So, the prospects for any side to be "proven wrong" are slim to none. We can obviously try and advance our cases, but in the mean time, as you said Babak, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
Quote from alfonso:

It is my position that the entire US action regarding to Iraq has already been wrong. Future events aren't going to do anyting to change that.
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Wow! Talk about dogmatic. So future events won't change your mind?

Even when Iraqis are dancing and embracing soldiers? What if they continue to dance and embrace them? What if they do set up an interim government made up of Iraqis? What if they do create a new government elected by the Iraqis? What if they write a new constitution that gives them democracy, free speech, a free press, etc.? What if in ten years Iraq becomes a beacon for all of the other Arab countries?

If all that happens to pass, will we find you grumbling?
 
Quote from Babak:



Wow! Talk about dogmatic. So future events won't change your mind?

Even when Iraqis are dancing and embracing soldiers? What if they continue to dance and embrace them? What if they do set up an interim government made up of Iraqis? What if they do create a new government elected by the Iraqis? What if they write a new constitution that gives them democracy, free speech, a free press, etc.? What if in ten years Iraq becomes a beacon for all of the other Arab countries?

If all that happens to pass, will we find you grumbling?
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Babak, the future quality of life of the Iraqi people is not going to change my opinion of whether the actions the US already took were right or not. Of course it wouldn't.

Now, if we're going to fast forward the clock 20, 30 years down the track, and Arab nations -- by their own choosing -- become similar to something you might see in western Europe today, and the catalyst for the immense changes that would be required to transform them thus were directly related to what happened in Iraq, then, in that case, I would probably be inclined to say that, yes, the US invasion of Iraq proved to be of great benefit to the Arabs and to the world.

The key point is that it is a choice of the Arab peoples to change the way they live their lives in that way. I'm really no great fan of Arab style governments or of their lifestyles in general, but it's not for ME to decide for them how they should be living their lives.

So, yes, it is possible that I could admit being wrong about the way I view the US's actions with respect to Iraq, but the chances of the events that would lead to such an admission from me actually occurring are, imo, pretty slim indeed.
 
ok I understand you and I also think the probability of change in the ME is low (but it is growing). But it is possible. :)

And perhaps, unlike you I really hope it does happen...because among other reasons I would like to one day go back to my birthplace (without risk of being killed).
 
Quote from alfonso:

The key point is that it is a choice of the Arab peoples to change the way they live their lives in that way. I'm really no great fan of Arab style governments or of their lifestyles in general, but it's not for ME to decide for them how they should be living their lives.
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This is indeed the key point, because it perfectly illuminates, in crystal clear fashion, your ideology. I find it similar to Madison's "Hands Off" ideology. I'll state here what I posted to him on another thread:

You're willing to admit that there are sincerely evil people out there, evil governments in fact, yet you don't feel the need to do anything about them. Isolationism at all costs?

Better to believe in pipe dreams of "containment," and UN "enforcement" while those that would do us harm grow stronger and continue to repress their own people in atrocious ways.

What you're basically saying is: How unfortunate, but they haven't done anything to me YET, so what the heck. Any action we take prior to one of our cities being destroyed would be, well, plain wrong.

So the US picks and chooses. News Flash: IT HAS TO! Do we have the resources to right ALL the wrongs in the world? Of course not. And if we tried, you and others would cry in outrage at our "IMPERIALISM"!

Cold, man! Brrrr! And just a tad selfish, don't you think? Wow! And I thought you liberal peaceniks were supposed to be the "compassionate" among us....

Alfonso, it's so easy for you to be sitting in your condo in Buenos Aires or wherever, sippin' your latte, and saying things like "it's not for ME to decide for them how they should be living their lives," when the lives "they" are leading are absolutely miserable and fraught with starvation, torture, imprisonment, and death. Not being American also makes it easier to make such statements, because you couldn't even help another nation out even if you wanted to!

Jesus, if we as a race never helped our fellow man in times of need, where would be we be? :confused:
 
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