Scientists...Got it wrong again!

[jficquette]

Quote from WaveStrider:

Thx. Pretty wild stuff.

Gives new meaning to the phrase"All I know is that I do not know..."

...'cause now I also don't know in all those extra dimensions...

We don't even know what we don't know.

 

[jem]

Quote from stu:

No I don’t think so, There is a similarity in this thread between those who want to believe religion above all else and are only looking at selective data to do so.

Jem can only look at one particular word (no surprise he’s notoriously thick) , peilthetraveler is only looking at extinct trilobite fossils ignoring the similar looking existing Triops, whilst yourself although I may say, displaying a far more intelligent and erudite position than either of those two, prefers to look away with a hand waving “What more really needs to be said ? ". Again not looking at the data, but selecting only particular data.



There is no chasm here. There are concepts of God / Creators and there is a concept and the fact of existence.
Without existence itself there is no beginning, no pre beginning. Without existence no thing can exist. There is no God, no Creator unless existence either can or does first exist.
It is an axiom of irreducible principal. You cannot escape it. Neither can God, nor can anything.

Nothing more lame than the old underhanded out of context dig. Well done. When you wish to explain why you think axiom was not only a more appropriate word but that my use of tautology was incorrect - you can regain your dignity on this thread. Troll.

 

[jem]

vhehn - I did not respond this time, because this time I thought your comment was a fair one. It would take work to examine. Work I do not have the time to put in right now.

 

[stu]

jem,
Deal with the issues raised.

The fact and those concepts of existence are axiomatic.

 

[killthesunshine]

Quote from jficquette:

We don't even know what we don't know.

It's not what we don't know that gives trouble
it's what we know that ain't so

 

[jem]

Quote from stu:

jem,
Deal with the issues raised.

The fact and those concepts of existence are axiomatic.

what the hell are you talking about? you attempted (a poor attempt, I might add) to correct my use of language.

I was the one who pointed out your argument was b.s. since it was set up as a strawman.

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:

what the hell are you talking about? you attempted (a poor attempt, I might add) to correct my use of language.

I was the one who pointed out your argument was b.s. since it was set up as a strawman.

Calm down jem, you're getting yourself in knots again...

try it slowly.... step by step





Barth Vader said
nothing would or could "pre-date" the Creator. "


I pointed out...
Existence must have predated a Creator.

Then you, obviously way out of your depth said this:
I find it interesting that you crafted a tautology - et up a strawman


Now, Barth has gone quiet, made a dignified retreat perhaps, but you can't even tell the difference between axiom and tautology.


Creators can't exist unless existence exists . It's axiomatic. Therefore something must predate God.

There is no a strawman, nor a tautology. Doesn't fit either of those definitions although you could only manage to look one of them up..

 

[smilingsynic]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

How about this....God told Job,(at around 600 b.c.) the world was round and free floating in space. Scientists told everyone for the next 2000 years that the earth was flat.

God also told Job that the world was made up of things too small to be seen with the eyes (obviously a reference to molecules which would not be "discovered" by scientists until what..1800? 1900?)

There are a few other things in there that scientists are waiting to "discover" which of course they will completely ignore the fact that God already told us that 2500+ years ago. Talk about being the last to find out...

The Bible also states that bats are birds. Science states that bats are not birds, but mammals.

The Job reference to leviathan cannot be a dinosaur, since large dinosaurs went extinct millions of years before man appeared. Or have you found other evidence to the contrary (LOL)?

The Bible has SO many statements of scientific stupidity this board has no room for all of them, and I don't have the time right now.



PM me, and I will be happy to help, when I have the time.

 

[smilingsynic]

Quote from Barth Vader:

Ah yes, that stern grouping of letters that form the question "Why"........

"..Beyond the bright searchlights of science,
Out of sight of the windows of sense,
Old riddles still bid us defiance,
Old questions of Why and of Whence..."

William Cecil Dampier-Whetham [1867-1952]


Why do I beleive in the Biblical account of creation and its Creator?

Because, for me, after a long journey, it is what makes complete sense. In the complete scenario, it makes complete sense.

Regarding Sundays and BBQ...I have not worshipped inside a church , or belonged to a denomination for almost 20 years.

The biblical accounts of creation have long been scientifically refuted. I cannot understand why someone would CHOOSE to live in ignorance. But then I have a hard time understanding irrational behavior and beliefs.

 

[WaveStrider]

Quote from stu:




Creators can't exist unless existence exists . It's axiomatic. Therefore something must predate God.

This is an interesting assertion. I suppose it is like the philosophical question, does such a thing as "beauty" exist without an observer.

Does existence require consciousness to define it? If so, then yes, nothing could pre-date it.

Though I suppose, since time is being used as the measuring stick, one could argue that a "Creator" and "Existence" both occur at the same instant - no time lapse. Existence and awareness of existence simultaneously.

Though even using time as the qualifier might not be quite right...

An argument for the ages...