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Schonfeld Sec. bad moon rising ???
- Thread starter cz1
- Start date
i must agree with Metooxx, aka MTX. MTX is correct stating that 1.5 billion is done in the Nasdaq due to Firms, hedgefunds, funds, mutual and 401k, dumping sunw, csco, beas, etc. Nasdaq is soon to be a Otcbb market, just take a look at the NAZ 100, any firms left like Msft, Intc, Klac, Amat, even Csco may very well drop one letter and end up at the NYSE once the Electronic platform being rolled out this summer is established by the NYSE.
The key is "has produced". Based on simple logic, such a statment contains a "history" refrence. In other words, Schoni use to produce big numbers. I am a trader who was taught by two of Schoni's best and biggest.
There is no argument with the statment that Schoni use to produce serious coin. And no argument that Schoni has produced some of the top traders. I am from that school of thought.
However, every dog has its day, now its schoni's turn. In fact, most prop firms have thrown in the towel. I will all ways be thankfull for my time at Schoni and those traders who took me under their wings.
In fact, Schoni was ten times better than any MBA school I could of opted for. Hands on, trading size and learning. I recomend that all new traders find a mentor, find someone to teach you. To teach you not what to do, but what not to do. Learning the mistakes others have made will save your P&L and will allow you to develope your own style.
And yes, OPP, other peoples money, is great. But remember that OPP comes with a price.
There is no argument with the statment that Schoni use to produce serious coin. And no argument that Schoni has produced some of the top traders. I am from that school of thought.
However, every dog has its day, now its schoni's turn. In fact, most prop firms have thrown in the towel. I will all ways be thankfull for my time at Schoni and those traders who took me under their wings.
In fact, Schoni was ten times better than any MBA school I could of opted for. Hands on, trading size and learning. I recomend that all new traders find a mentor, find someone to teach you. To teach you not what to do, but what not to do. Learning the mistakes others have made will save your P&L and will allow you to develope your own style.
And yes, OPP, other peoples money, is great. But remember that OPP comes with a price.
Any firm that was around in 1999 and 2000 that was liberally giving away buying power to its traders has produced it's share of "superstars". Schoni didn't have an exclusive on trading "talent". BTW, the definition of a superstar was someone who went out loaded every night, maxed out his buying power and hung on to the bull's horns. Nowadays, these types of traders are called reckless idiots. This sideways market has chewed the asses of these "load the boat" traders.
The "best and brightest" traders are those who are consistently net profitable and can scalp a sideways market and ride a trending market. Yesterday's "superstars" are now imparting their infinite wisdom as trading mentors (since they got burned out from getting ass-raped by this market), which is a cruel joke on new traders, who look up to these wash-outs.
The "best and brightest" traders are those who are consistently net profitable and can scalp a sideways market and ride a trending market. Yesterday's "superstars" are now imparting their infinite wisdom as trading mentors (since they got burned out from getting ass-raped by this market), which is a cruel joke on new traders, who look up to these wash-outs.
I've seen it and you are 100 % correct. I work for Shoney, I never made real big money when stocks went straight up day after day in the late 90's. But I always made a good living, and I am still profitable over the last year, meanwhile Shoney has not let any of those "superstars" go even though they are now down huge GROSS, he has fired many traders who are making small money, WHY?? Is it because he CAN'T AFFORD to pay the "superstars" their kickers due in Dec.? and is hoping they quit ? It just does not make sense and that's always a bad sign.
Schonfeld had a momentum based trading philosophy. You could discern a logic behind it. And the reasons behind it working.
Now most of those reasons are gone. Many seemed to have adopted the attitude that people just arent following the system.
It remains to be seen if schonfeld can come up with a positive expectations setup. Or even realize the one they subscribe to doesn't work anymore on the time frame they want.
Someone also said that schonfeld was expanding its short term and scalping. Think about that
Now most of those reasons are gone. Many seemed to have adopted the attitude that people just arent following the system.
It remains to be seen if schonfeld can come up with a positive expectations setup. Or even realize the one they subscribe to doesn't work anymore on the time frame they want.
Someone also said that schonfeld was expanding its short term and scalping. Think about that
i agree to a point. there were many traders that made great $$$ in 99/00. Its not the money that made them great, its the fact they had balls when push came to shove. Of course, the true traders have adapted to trying to hit base hits and not home runs. The adaption process took me a few months, five or so.
However, during that hell bent for leather time, most I know banked millions. Thus, they are not so much worried about money. Many of my buddies can kick back for decades and live a good life.
Most choose not to. Many have adapted and continue to make base hits. Some have to dig them selfs out of a hole. Some are deciding to trade their own capital< as myself.
But the stay at home etrade bandit, or the Channel stocks dot.com traders are no longer. Most of the chop shops that charged 2cents and stacked their offices full of cowboys, are no longer. But as a trader, your only as good as your last trade.
Some traders will never see 9 zeros and some will see more. It all depends on the individual trader. Basically is wraped around the pschology of the individual trader. I was one of those cowboys, but I survived and learned that sometimes its ok to hit base hits.
However, during that hell bent for leather time, most I know banked millions. Thus, they are not so much worried about money. Many of my buddies can kick back for decades and live a good life.
Most choose not to. Many have adapted and continue to make base hits. Some have to dig them selfs out of a hole. Some are deciding to trade their own capital< as myself.
But the stay at home etrade bandit, or the Channel stocks dot.com traders are no longer. Most of the chop shops that charged 2cents and stacked their offices full of cowboys, are no longer. But as a trader, your only as good as your last trade.
Some traders will never see 9 zeros and some will see more. It all depends on the individual trader. Basically is wraped around the pschology of the individual trader. I was one of those cowboys, but I survived and learned that sometimes its ok to hit base hits.
Incorrect. Schoni is not expanding their shortterm> scalping> program. In fact, the only two scalpers at the chicago office were fired. Net/gross negitive was the result of their scalping style. Most of the traders on this form are not informed correctly. Schoni has not expanded anything. They have a small experiment in the futures arena. A few futures guys from the floor are trading electronic utilizing TT system. However, a few "good" traders in on that end blew out, one lost almost a million before he was let go, trading bonds off the floor.
My guess is schoni is rethinking the model that was once the pride and joy. There is a lot of crowding in the sectors and the markets are far more efficent due to 35% or more of the volume in stocks is electronic.
In a sense, the dumb money is gone, and its use pros trading against pros and Funds. No more Stewart commercials. If you guys are truly pros, just ck out the money flows every quarter....more money flowing out of equities than in. Half the idiots are buying property, at the top....once again, they are getting in at the top of something.
My guess is schoni is rethinking the model that was once the pride and joy. There is a lot of crowding in the sectors and the markets are far more efficent due to 35% or more of the volume in stocks is electronic.
In a sense, the dumb money is gone, and its use pros trading against pros and Funds. No more Stewart commercials. If you guys are truly pros, just ck out the money flows every quarter....more money flowing out of equities than in. Half the idiots are buying property, at the top....once again, they are getting in at the top of something.