Scalping scalping scalping...

[NY0BScalper]

Quote from SteveD:

Just so you understand.......

Scalping anything other than liquid stocks is pure gambling....

You will not last 6 months, if that......

Learn a few (3-5) very liquid stocks that move...learn the moves...take what they give you everyday....

Nice and consistant.....you will last...

Good luck

SteveD

That's just not true. I really can't make money trading with more than a few million shares per day in volume. I am most consistently profitable on stocks with 500k volume. I'm not the only trader I know who shares these characteristics.

I would even venture to say that all those recommending you scalp highly liquid stocks with penny spreads know nothing about scalping. Scalping is the art of taking liquidity. It's the art of taking people's outs. It's easier for a scalper to have an edge in an illiquid name because of his effect on price and becuase of the wide spreads.

As far as only 20 stocks being good for scalping, whoever said that, that's just pure crap. It's just an untrue statement. Between NYSE and NASDAQ there are probably 1k good stocks for scalping, of which, on a given day, 300 will be worth looking at.

 

[amitman]

Quote from NY0BScalper:

That's just not true. I really can't make money trading with more than a few million shares per day in volume. I am most consistently profitable on stocks with 500k volume. I'm not the only trader I know who shares these characteristics.

I would even venture to say that all those recommending you scalp highly liquid stocks with penny spreads know nothing about scalping. Scalping is the art of taking liquidity. It's the art of taking people's outs. It's easier for a scalper to have an edge in an illiquid name because of his effect on price and becuase of the wide spreads.

As far as only 20 stocks being good for scalping, whoever said that, that's just pure crap. It's just an untrue statement. Between NYSE and NASDAQ there are probably 1k good stocks for scalping, of which, on a given day, 300 will be worth looking at.

that's really depends on your scalping style but it's obvious that's taking big sizes in and out very quickly without gettin' to much slippage is much easier with very liquid stocks. It's true though thats if your scalping style invovles with taking other people's stops out then you'll do better with less liquid stocks. I myself don't fell comfortable with making people lose money intentioally.

 

[NY0BScalper]

Quote from amitman:

I myself don't fell comfortable with making people lose money intentioally.

lol then bro this is the wrong business for you. Trading is about taking money from others. At the low end, professional equity scalping is abot taking people's outs. At the high end, it's about manipulating the order book and painting a false picture.

Slippage is good if you're on the right side of it. it's someone else's fault if they see a large order in the book and they dedice to play off it, then information comes that indicates that that the probability of that order getting taken out is high, and I'm the first on the button to take it, and decide to take the whole thing, and they get caught by surprise. They're playing a dangerous game, as am I. I've gotten smoked before badly myself with too much size in illiquid names.

 

[amitman]

Quote from NY0BScalper:

lol then bro this is the wrong business for you. Trading is about taking money from others. At the low end, professional equity scalping is abot taking people's outs. At the high end, it's about manipulating the order book and painting a false picture.

Slippage is good if you're on the right side of it. it's someone else's fault if they see a large order in the book and they dedice to play off it, then information comes that indicates that that the probability of that order getting taken out is high, and I'm the first on the button to take it, and decide to take the whole thing, and they get caught by surprise. They're playing a dangerous game, as am I. I've gotten smoked before badly myself with too much size in illiquid names.

I know you'll say this and this is just not true. Stock tarding is not a zero-sum game. for example, if stock XYZ started the year at the price of 10$ and ended at 40$ that's mean that it's theoreticly possible that everyone who traded the stock have indeed made money. Of course that only theoretical because in reality much less people take most of the money and the other lose. what I'm trying to say is that I'm aware that if I'm making money in the market then probably it's on the back of someone else who lose money but I still know that theoreticly maybe it's not on someone else's back, because i ride the trend and if someone lose money on the way it's not directly because of me, espcially in very liqiud stocks. You, for instance, can't say this because the way you make your money is a way when the other side must lose money so you directly make people lose money.
For me, that's what make the difference . For me that's just the diffrence between Black Jack (me) and Poker (you), enough said.

For the second thing you mentioned i generally agree and I'm aware that many people play this game, for both sides. I myself don't like this kind of trading.

 

[kitty1996]

But can retail traders do that? I mean, by painting a deceiving pictures in order book?
I thought only the Specialist or the Market Maker can do it.

My comment is mainly for highly liquid stocks, like C, GE, AAPL...
I don't think any retail traders can manipulate such a stock, financially no one can.
Thus, I don't think any retail traders can manipulate the order book for high liquid, expensive stocks.


For illiquid stocks, not too expensive stocks, might be under $10, a few retail traders with millions of dollars can actually work in team & put wrong trades in to bring the stock up/down, but I think this is illegal.

Quote from NY0BScalper:

lol then bro this is the wrong business for you. Trading is about taking money from others. At the low end, professional equity scalping is abot taking people's outs. At the high end, it's about manipulating the order book and painting a false picture..

 

[NY0BScalper]

Quote from kitty1996:


For illiquid stocks, not too expensive stocks, might be under $10, a few retail traders with millions of dollars can actually work in team & put wrong trades in to bring the stock up/down, but I think this is illegal.

I can act as a "specialist" and do 10-15% of the volume of a $30 stock that trades 1 mill/day with 250kBP. That's been my post-earning season strategy. You don't need huge BP to help give your stock a push and to trigger the programs, if you can figure out the triggres... you just need good timing. You can't to that as easily in the liquid names, which is why I think it makes a shitload more sense to scalp more illiquid issues

.
Wash trading is illegal, very very illegal. I am not talking about securities manipulation. You can still put in proper (100% in compliance with all securities laws) trades and orders and paint a deceiving picture. If there's a buyer who works his order in a stock all day, and he goes away, and i see that he has gone away, I can fake being him, by acting the way he did, in order to entice people to buy into my refreshing offers, then pull my bids, and watch people panic when they realize the buyer is actually gone. I can even be the one downticking it with very wide spreads to create some fear even after accumulating it on the offer. No way I could pull that kind of nonsense off in GE. That nonsense is most certainly a good edge.

Also, more simply stated, if 1/3rd of the orders in the book are mine then I know better than you what's fake and what's real and that alone is a slight edge.

 

[kitty1996]

$250,000 BP only...for $30 stock?
I think you can ride with the Specialist or the MM but I don't think it's YOU that can cause the market movement.
May be that day the Specialist already set a move ...you are experienced scalper so you can feel it so you put a bet together with him, you win along with the house.

I don't think $250,000 BP is enough to cause any major movement by oneself, regardless of how good a trader is. Riding along the ride with the big boy is a better description.

Quote from NY0BScalper:

I can act as a "specialist" and do 10-15% of the volume of a $30 stock that trades 1 mill/day with 250kBP. That's been my post-earning season strategy. You don't need huge BP to help give your stock a push and to trigger the programs, if you can figure out the triggres... you just need good timing. You can't to that as easily in the liquid names, which is why I think it makes a shitload more sense to scalp more illiquid issues.

Putting in wrong trades, that is illegal, very very illegal. You can still put in right trades and orders and paint a deceiving picture. If there's a buyer who works his order in a stock all day, and he goes away, and i see that he has gone away, I can fake being him, by acting the way he did, in order to entice people to buy into my refreshing offers, then pull my bids, and watch people panic when they realize the buyer is actually gone. I can even be the one downticking it with very wide spreads to create some fear even after accumulating it on the offer. No way I could pull that kind of nonsense off in GE. That nonsense is most certainly a good edge.

Also, more simply stated, if 1/3rd of the orders in the book are mine then I know better than you what's fake and what's real and that alone is a slight edge.

 

[NY0BScalper]

Quote from kitty1996:

$250,000 BP only...for $30 stock?
I think you can ride with the Specialist or the MM but I don't think it's YOU that can cause the market movement.
May be that day the Specialist already set a move ...you are experienced scalper so you can feel it so you put a bet together with him, you win along with the house.

I don't think $250,000 BP is enough to cause any major movement by oneself, regardless of how good a trader is. Riding along the ride with the big boy is a better description.

I'm talking about a stock where I'm the only human trading it and it's all programs. I don't even begin to cause the movement. However, I can cause a buyer to be willing to buy for more than he would if I hadn't entered orders in a certain way a certain time. I can also confuse other participants, AND HERE IS THE BIG MONEY ONE TRIGGER PROGRAMS TO COME IN OR TO GET MORE AGGRESSIVE. This one is not easy at all to figure out but if figure it out in a single security it's a HUGE EDGE.

Regardless, even with $250bp, I can create movement. Think of the example I just said in the last post. Buyer leaves the stock. He's gone for 30m. I come back, 30m later, showing orders with the same formation the buyer did and mimicking him. I get everyone else who has been watching the stock to do the only logical thing - start buying assuming he's back. Then I show that I'm just a dickhead fucking around. People panic out. Movement caused. Perhaps not major movement but profitable movement nonetheless.

 

[The Swordsman]

You have an awful lot of opinions for a newbie. What you should do is stop making all kinds of assumtions and listen to those dispensing info. NYOB knows what he is talking about, best to listen to him and gain what you can and leave youre own unfounded opinions out.

Quote from kitty1996:

$250,000 BP only...for $30 stock?
I think you can ride with the Specialist or the MM but I don't think it's YOU that can cause the market movement.
May be that day the Specialist already set a move ...you are experienced scalper so you can feel it so you put a bet together with him, you win along with the house.

I don't think $250,000 BP is enough to cause any major movement by oneself, regardless of how good a trader is. Riding along the ride with the big boy is a better description.

 

[kitty1996]

I know what you are saying.
But what happened if your faked order (let say you put a large faked order in) to make people think there is a buyer/the Specialist/the MM is buying.
BUT someone who has a large number of shares waiting for that moment to dump(because he knows insiders infos that earning warning is coming), you'll be stucked with a huge number of shares of a stock that will be cut in half after warning.

$250,000 = not even $10,000 shares of $30 stock. It's not even a block trade! It can easily be filled in a second if someone wanna dump it.

You know what I mean?

Quote from NY0BScalper:

I'm talking about a stock where I'm the only human trading it and it's all programs. I don't even begin to cause the movement. However, I can cause a buyer to be willing to buy for more than he would if I hadn't entered orders in a certain way a certain time. I can also confuse other participants, AND HERE IS THE BIG MONEY ONE TRIGGER PROGRAMS TO COME IN OR TO GET MORE AGGRESSIVE. This one is not easy at all to figure out but if figure it out in a single security it's a HUGE EDGE.

Regardless, even with $250bp, I can create movement. Think of the example I just said in the last post. Buyer leaves the stock. He's gone for 30m. I come back, 30m later, showing orders with the same formation the buyer did and mimicking him. I get everyone else who has been watching the stock to do the only logical thing - start buying assuming he's back. Then I show that I'm just a dickhead fucking around. People panic out. Movement caused. Perhaps not major movement but profitable movement nonetheless.