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Scalping: Is this consider a qualilty method of trading?
- Thread starter NJ1000
- Start date
this thread is a bit out of touch with reality. i'm gonna raise the BULLSHIT flag and put in my .02
you guys are talking like "oh yeah, keep the small profit and just forget about the bigger profit, even though it's there, you're a scalper so don't take it"
scalping is about the worst possible way to try and make a living in this business, and is every prop owner's wet dream, which is why there are posters with a low post count being like, "oh yeah, this guy jerry IN MY OFFICE made like $2million scalping last year" and the next guy's like, "yeah, well raoul in MY OFFICE made like 500k last year, but that was his worst year ever"
they make it sound like scalping is SOOOOOOOOO easy. well, it's not, especially for the beginning trader.
know why? it is mentally VERY stressful and psychologically damaging. the big losses really fuck you up. and it's expensive. get ready to piss away hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars every day in commissions.
the LONGER the time frame, the easier the trade.
that's my .02.
you guys are talking like "oh yeah, keep the small profit and just forget about the bigger profit, even though it's there, you're a scalper so don't take it"
scalping is about the worst possible way to try and make a living in this business, and is every prop owner's wet dream, which is why there are posters with a low post count being like, "oh yeah, this guy jerry IN MY OFFICE made like $2million scalping last year" and the next guy's like, "yeah, well raoul in MY OFFICE made like 500k last year, but that was his worst year ever"
they make it sound like scalping is SOOOOOOOOO easy. well, it's not, especially for the beginning trader.
know why? it is mentally VERY stressful and psychologically damaging. the big losses really fuck you up. and it's expensive. get ready to piss away hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars every day in commissions.
the LONGER the time frame, the easier the trade.
that's my .02.
Quote from bandit:
500K/ year....You are out of your mind. I know hundreds of traders, and no one, I mean no one is making that kind of money. Get your facts straight before you open your mouth.
In 2000 the best scalpers I knew including myself made multiple 7 fig. In todays market, the best scalpers are lucky to make 150K. Most are in the 30 to 60K range that are actually profitable. This is a very different market with moves for no reason against the futures. Taking 15 cents is a great trade. Not like the old days where a 1/4 pissed you off, and wasn't worth the time.
Trading as a whole has progressively gotten worse and worse. Everyone I talk to (guys who run some of the biggest and best know shops in the country) have been saying for the past 2 1/2 years, "It'll get better soon". I just hope it levels off soon. Even the OO guys are having a tough go of it.
Bandit
Amen.
I know a number of scalpers at the CBOT in the futures biz that make 7 figures (yes, this year too) and a very, very few who regularly make 8. But that really has nothing to do with what a new trader (or most experienced traders) can expect to make. I also know scalpers on the floor who are happy to clear 75K at the end of the year. There are a few Michael Jordans around too, but I doubt that many of us will ever win an NBA title with a last-second shot. The question is really not meaningful. It's a little like asking how much money you can make starting a business. The answer is "Probably something between a huge loss and a couple of billion dollars (although skewed a bit to the lower end of that range.)" To scalp sucessfully requires (among other things) extremely low costs, great reflexes, no ego whatsoever regarding market opinion, and REALLY extreme discipline, and is just not for everyone. But, for the folks I know who are good at it, it more than pays the bills.
Good trading!
Jessie
Good trading!
Jessie
Quote from bungrider:
this thread is a bit out of touch with reality. i'm gonna raise the BULLSHIT flag and put in my .02
you guys are talking like "oh yeah, keep the small profit and just forget about the bigger profit, even though it's there, you're a scalper so don't take it"
scalping is about the worst possible way to try and make a living in this business, and is every prop owner's wet dream, which is why there are posters with a low post count being like, "oh yeah, this guy jerry IN MY OFFICE made like $2million scalping last year" and the next guy's like, "yeah, well raoul in MY OFFICE made like 500k last year, but that was his worst year ever"
they make it sound like scalping is SOOOOOOOOO easy. well, it's not, especially for the beginning trader.
know why? it is mentally VERY stressful and psychologically damaging. the big losses really fuck you up. and it's expensive. get ready to piss away hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars every day in commissions.
the LONGER the time frame, the easier the trade.
that's my .02.
Well, the only way to scalp now, I believe, is without paying commission. But thats my thoughts.
Quote from Mecro:
I'm completely with bandit on this one.
I read what you said and you need to get more info.
First of all, you are bringing up what traders made from last year. The market has changed significantly in the last few months, forget last year.
Guys in our office were making at least 10k a month last year. There were 2 or 3 that were actually making about 300k a year.
Taking this month into account, all of that has changed. It is very tough. The top guy is making 250k a year, maybe at this point.
This month has plained sucked for scalping. With the specialists realizing that their days are numbered, they are much tougher. There are many more new traders doing scalping (thanks WorldCo) that have no clue what they are doing and only mess up trades. All of that is fine, but the volume is not there to make up for it.
Whether it changes or not, no one knows, but there definitely is no room for even more scalpers.
Now this is plain selfish. No room for scalpers.
Just because others "screw up trades" for you does not mean they don't "create better trades" for others. The market is very dynamic and it will always change.
The methods will evolve constantly and your job as a trader of any method or caliber is to develop something that works and UPDATE it every second something happens. Its great to have something that works now, but you still need the skills to be able to adapt.
Scalping is, I believe, if done correctly a very efficient way to make money from the market. As I said before, when you know what you are doing, it becomes easy. The hard part is adjusting.
The more new traders there are the better for everyone. Volume will go up, that for one. Then the weak will be wiped out. Just because you are strong last month does not mean that you're strong now. Its a constant battle - and if it is not in your blood - no one is making you fight. For others this challenge is invigorating - because the result is PURE money with the psychological reward of being able to beat the majority.
Therefore, I say, if you have a passion for this and like the challenge and like the reward - trade. Scalp, Position, Rebate whatever you do - do it!
If you think this is a struggle and you nag - then don't. Become a florist.
Quote from AnonymousTrader:
Now this is plain selfish. No room for scalpers.
Just because others "screw up trades" for you does not mean they don't "create better trades" for others. The market is very dynamic and it will always change.
The methods will evolve constantly and your job as a trader of any method or caliber is to develop something that works and UPDATE it every second something happens. Its great to have something that works now, but you still need the skills to be able to adapt.
Scalping is, I believe, if done correctly a very efficient way to make money from the market. As I said before, when you know what you are doing, it becomes easy. The hard part is adjusting.
The more new traders there are the better for everyone. Volume will go up, that for one. Then the weak will be wiped out. Just because you are strong last month does not mean that you're strong now. Its a constant battle - and if it is not in your blood - no one is making you fight. For others this challenge is invigorating - because the result is PURE money with the psychological reward of being able to beat the majority.
Therefore, I say, if you have a passion for this and like the challenge and like the reward - trade. Scalp, Position, Rebate whatever you do - do it!
If you think this is a struggle and you nag - then don't. Become a florist.
You do not understand what I am saying. If there are more GOOD scalpers, ones that do not constantly mess up trades, that's different. I'm dying for more of those. But when a short can't move more than 5 cents because all the newbies have no clue how and why the short steps, that is only bad. Barely anyone makes money, but everyone churns. Why would you want even more newbies into that equation.
More trader volume only gives more fresh meat for the specialist. Trader vs trader is really bad, only second to trader vs specialist.
Quote from bungrider:
this thread is a bit out of touch with reality. i'm gonna raise the BULLSHIT flag and put in my .02
you guys are talking like "oh yeah, keep the small profit and just forget about the bigger profit, even though it's there, you're a scalper so don't take it"
scalping is about the worst possible way to try and make a living in this business, and is every prop owner's wet dream, which is why there are posters with a low post count being like, "oh yeah, this guy jerry IN MY OFFICE made like $2million scalping last year" and the next guy's like, "yeah, well raoul in MY OFFICE made like 500k last year, but that was his worst year ever"
they make it sound like scalping is SOOOOOOOOO easy. well, it's not, especially for the beginning trader.
know why? it is mentally VERY stressful and psychologically damaging. the big losses really fuck you up. and it's expensive. get ready to piss away hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars every day in commissions.
the LONGER the time frame, the easier the trade.
that's my .02.
On terms of risk, scalping is the least. Assuming you know how to keep your losses small.
Bigger rewards are definitely in swing, but it's kinda hard to just jump in and be able to take those hits when the trades go wrong.
Seems like scalpers are like remora fish. They need much larger fish/sharks/turtles to attach to in an attempt to feed.
However, over the last year or two, the number of remora fish has grown and grown and the really big fish they attach to have become more and more sparse and smaller.
Now they are left to fight over scraps and attempt to eat one another.
I gave up scalping a while ago for longer term methods. To many of these little remora fish stepping in all over the place on every tiny move made by a bigger fish.
You end up with a big fish literally covered by so many of these remora he looks like he has a fish afro. Then the big fish can barely move because of the immense drag from the remora fish all over him.
peace
axeman
However, over the last year or two, the number of remora fish has grown and grown and the really big fish they attach to have become more and more sparse and smaller.
Now they are left to fight over scraps and attempt to eat one another.
I gave up scalping a while ago for longer term methods. To many of these little remora fish stepping in all over the place on every tiny move made by a bigger fish.
You end up with a big fish literally covered by so many of these remora he looks like he has a fish afro. Then the big fish can barely move because of the immense drag from the remora fish all over him.
peace
axeman