Satellite? Does it work well for trading?

I just want to say that I am using a 56k modem with IB and MSN as an isp. I do 10 to 20 trades a day and execution is almost instantaneous. I am totally amazed at how well it works compared to previous platforms I've used. I live in the boonies but I think this works for me as the phone line is probably not very crowded on weekdays.
 
Originally posted by easyrider
I just want to say that I am using a 56k modem with IB and MSN as an isp. I do 10 to 20 trades a day and execution is almost instantaneous. I am totally amazed at how well it works compared to previous platforms I've used. I live in the boonies but I think this works for me as the phone line is probably not very crowded on weekdays.
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I don't think people realize that dial-up service CAN be adequate for trading. Remember, when numbers like 56K, 128K, 800K, 1.4M are thrown around, this is not really SPEED, it's BANDWIDTH and means how much data you can get down the line in a second.

ALL data moves around 186,000 miles/second minus any resistance and any delay at routers along the way. This is per bit, there are 8 bits to a byte, so every byte moves at 1/8th this speed. Any slow down comes when you try to shove too many bytes down the line at one time. This can happen when you are using streaming audio or video or downloading big pictures or files.

But for trading, to get bid, ask, last, volume quote size on a stock is an infinitesimal amount of data in the big picture. Just as your order "BUY 100 shares of IBM at 89.52 for account XYZ" is.

The bandwidth issue comes when you want more data. Let's say you want L2 on INTC. Well, you not only have last, volume , best bid, ask, and quote size for the stock, you have bid and ask and quote size for every market maker and ECN, and that's dozens of MMs. You also have the ECN's and they change their bid and ask info far faster than the MM's do. So, L2 is a bandwidth hog.

Then you multiply that by how many stocks you watch. You could probably watch a couple hundred bid, ask, last, quote size, and volume right through the opening and not have a problem. The problem comes with L2 and it's changes. The problem also comes with software that filters the market like FirstAlert where you ask for quotes on 2000 stocks.

So keep all this in mind before going to extremes for bandwith.
 
Got one two months ago at Best Buy. They will not sell the two way because of software issues - just the one way. I'm not that impressed compared to the cable at my office and it definetly bogs down around 4 or so EDT. At home I use it just to speed up the net while reading and researching so cannot comment on live charts. Orders, as the previous poster mentioned would go through your ISP and I have no delay problems that I'm aware of trading in AH. The installers were awful. BB, I think just alots them like 2 hours so spend the money and get it professionally installed. Direcway support is excellent - possibly the best I've come across since wired. You must have no older than Windows 98 Second Edition and no Macs. Units are pretty cheaply constructed and cost 150$ at Best Buy and they are about twice as big as Dish or DirecTV unit and ugly white in color. All in all, it isn't great, but if you can't get cable, which I can't at home, it was my only choice. Service is 40$/month. Also, Direcway is now offering a more costly upgrade to the two way so they may have fixed the software trouble. I was attracted to this feature in the first place because of rural phone troubles. Hope this helps.

Geo.

PS: I am running just a low end Compaq laptop at home at present. I think my bottom end Celeron processor may be a part of the reason why it seems slow but am not good with computers to know for sure.
 
Thanks all,

I had no idea that I would get this many responses so quickly! I'm sorry that I forgot to mention that I can't get ISDN here either.

I have been running 2 u s robotics to a local isp (the only one that I could find that would support the shotgun/handshake protocol. A techie friend of mine had to show them how to set it up. :) My best connection speed is 74,666 or 37,333bps from each modem/phone line.

When I run tracert I am getting as high as 800ms in some spots, I am not really educated on all this but even a field rat can look at 800ms in one spot and tell that its higher then the 130's etc. To say the least I need something better.

I think that I will go ahead and give the directway 2WAY a try, as I am totally fed up with the data stoppage and my IB trader workstation losing connection as well as, my realtic charting going (lights out) with warnings of possible bandwidth problems popping up as soon as my method calls an entry.
Hopefully directway 2way has worked out the software problems, I'll give them a call and find out. (again,Thanks for that info).

I suppose that a 1/2 to 3/4 second lag is workable (guess I'll find out) E-minies can travel fast but I always enter my stops first and I enter my entry orders as limit orders. If I feel strongly about my method's call, then I have no problem doing a sweep entry with my IB limit order anyway. Those of you with IB probably know exactly what I'm saying here.

1-2 seconds inherent lag/round trip can go against me, but I suppose that since IB's software does seem to try to get the best possible price, that the lag could also work in my favor from time to time. I guess that trading against someone that has the ultimate speed connection matters, but as long as I am on the correct side of the move and am trading with the move then maybe this lag won't matter enough to cost me many points. As, my trades sometimes last 10 or 20 minutes.(usually exiting with trailing stops or stop losses however the case may be) Occassionally, I see a point or two (just laying there....lol) and I reach out an snatch it.(scalp) Sometimes it's just there and I can't help myself, I'll grab it !! The satellite data speed may put an end to me doing this, but it's probably not such a bad thing for me to stop doing anyway. (doesn't always work) :p

I am not a brand new trader but I still consider myself to be an apprentice/semi-newbie having only daytraded for about 15 months so, I still only trade 1 contract. (only 4 months with futures) I only watch NQ, ES, $COMPX,$DJI, NYSE Tick, NAS Tick and Trin, $SOX.X and 3 stocks (IBM, AMAT, and INTC) That's it for my RT-marketminder indicators.

I run 4 charts, all NQ, 1 minute, 3 minute, 13 minute, and 60 minute. On these charts I run a 3pd ma(with a 3 lag), a 5pd sma, a 15pd sma and a 200 sma. I also run stochastics and %R as well as volume bars. I do not run any chat rooms. Only IB and realtick charting/ straight from realtic. My dial-up still can't handle this and I don't consider this to be a lot of stuff to keep running.

So maybe the satelitte system with slight lag will work better than data stopping and platform disconnects and warning messages. I usually trade off my 3 minute charts using cross overs of the 5ma crossing the 15ma as entry signals and price often moves quickly at these points and here I sit ready to pounce and guess what. My data stops and IB starts trying to re-connect and smoke starts coming out of my ears......lol.....another missed entry......etc....sometimes I enter anyway a few points away from what I considered optimum entry.....that all depends on what my indicators are reading on the higher time frames 13 min and 60 min.

My method is real simple but what the heck, it works more often than not and I am surviving while I learn and tweak it. I just need for my data to not stop....

Thanks again for all the great feedback, I think I will like this site a lot. You traders seem to be knowledgable and caring. If there is anyone else that is allready using 2way. I would love to hear your experience with it. Good trading to all !!! Thank- You!! PS. If I do get this direcway/2way and set it all up and if this thread is still up. I will post a review on whether or not it has been good for me.

One other thing, does anyone know how to program a television to block out the DSL and Roadrunner Cable commercials.....LOL
 
Maybe another idea is to have your quotes on one internet connection and your IB acct on a computer with dial up.

The low bandwidth of the IB (assuming no level II with IB) would (may)give you more current bid ask pricing and orders may hit the CME a little quicker via a dial up vs dish.

If you dont already have more than one computer you may want to get another for backup and the cost is low enough that if it saves you a point here and there it could pay for itself.
 
RE: One more idea, from 1 reason,

I was just sitting here thinking about that myself. It may be time to build another tower. My current pc is plenty fast enough to handle all of my trading software. (p-3-550 with 512/133) prolly not something a gamer would call high tech,:p , but plenty fast for trading :). However, with another pc I could run data/chartiing on a new pc with satelitte and keep IB on my current pc with dial -up. I have to keep dial - up as a backup anyway.

I suppose that a 1-2 second difference between my IB trader work station data and my realtic data wouldn't be all that noticeable anyway. During faster moving markets, I have been getting a very noticeable difference between the two anyway, with realtic being the laggard as I am asking so much more from it. (sometimes as much a 3 points difference)(kinda freaky)

With the workload shared between satellite and isp, that may very well be the best option. I need an excuse to buy one of those new matrox 450 4 heads anyway. :D I'm currently running the one pc and a matrox dualhead with two (cheapy, but good enough) 19 monitors. The two monitors sure beat one but I still find myself wishing for more desktop space.

I am by far, not rolling in the dough, but I do believe in being willing to spend $ for decent equipment. I see it this way: a football player doesn't go out and play without pads until he get good and therefore his paycheck increases, so then he buys good pads because now they are more affordable.....LOL..

All this is coming together, one thing for sure, I'm going to make some kind of improvement here. I'm tired of playing without pads:(. The isp/ IB and satellite charting sounds like a go. I'll call directway 2/way and see if they have it all together. I wanted to ask other traders first though because you folks aren't trying to sell me the satelitte :) .

Thanks again from plumlazy
 
PLUMLAZY: I NOW HAVE CABLE ACCESS BUT...back when i had only dial up i had problems similar to you and solved them 99% by having two complete trading platforms running simultaneously on two separate phone lines with different brokers and different ISPs. cost me an extra $50 bucks a month but if you are serious about optimizing your trading it is a minimal expense.Plus i am a computer dummy and this system did not require any fancy haRDWARE OR SOFTWARE CONFIGURATIONS TO operATE. also as you can see i cannot type, lucky that i can at least trade
 
I should have included that I am using Starband on one computer for my charting software (esignal) and the 56k is on another computer. The only thing on that one is IB TWS. No level two, no charts, nothing but quotes for the eminis. I have not noticed any difference between the quotes 99% of the time. I used to be obsessed with getting more bandwidth even to the point of moving but I have been using this setup for a few months now and am no longer worried about it.
 
Originally posted by cashonly


There's an inherent lag in satellite. It's generally 1/2 sec to 3/4 sec each way. That means that if you're trading against someone on DSL/Cable, and you both react as soon as you get a quote, your order will get there than a second behind him.

But if a second is OK, then satellite can give you plenty of bandwidth.
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Cash, thanks for the info......is this the same with all satellite dish feeds??? are there any differences depending on which vendor one uses????
 
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