San Francisco Has Fallen

[VicBee]

So you didn't get it.

I answered your question that companies w/a storefront who must answer to shareholders will find any excuse to keep shareholders when they've failed to bring customers through the door. Up to and including using a rise in petty crime and theft that magically enough is seldom quantified and contrasted against revenue for said locations.

In fairness to Westfield (can't speak about Hilton), on skimming article, I didn't see them blaming petty crime or theft....just going by the tenor of the thread.

And petty crime with impunity, vagrants and drug dealing has nothing to do with keeping customers away. Isn't this a chicken or egg issue? Hotels, shopping centers... SF is being drained of its suburban and out of town consumers, that's a fact.

I'll be in San Francisco next month. I'll make sure to take pictures to share.

 

[Cuddles]

And petty crime with impunity, vagrants and drug dealing has nothing to do with keeping customers away. Isn't this a chicken or egg issue? Hotels, shopping centers... SF is being drained of its suburban and out of town consumers, that's a fact.

I'll be in San Francisco next month. I'll make sure to take pictures to share.

I don't object to the idea, I just want to see the numbers. Like I've said before, Silicon Valley's seen a major work from home shift, making commuting and patronizing places near or in the commute an afterthought. This on the back of a pandemic and shutdowns that already strained many businesses.

More employees are working remotely, causing big changes for regional transit networks. Over a third (35%) of Silicon Valley workers now work from home, up from 28% in 2021 and 6% in 2019. This shift is part of the reason for a massive decline in the number of people using Caltrain, Silicon Valley's primary commuter rail line: Caltrain ridership has fallen by 92% from pre-pandemic rates. The biggest shift in commute patterns was a 74% decline in San Francisco-based commuters heading to Santa Clara County between 2019 and 2021.

Is Caltrain's drop in revenue also due to shoplifting and vagabonds?

 

[VicBee]

I don't object to the idea, I just want to see the numbers. Like I've said before, Silicon Valley's seen a major work from home shift making commuting and patronizing places near or in the commute an afterthought. This on the back of a pandemic and shutdowns that already strained many businesses.

More employees are working remotely, causing big changes for regional transit networks. Over a third (35%) of Silicon Valley workers now work from home, up from 28% in 2021 and 6% in 2019. This shift is part of the reason for a massive decline in the number of people using Caltrain, Silicon Valley's primary commuter rail line: Caltrain ridership has fallen by 92% from pre-pandemic rates. The biggest shift in commute patterns was a 74% decline in San Francisco-based commuters heading to Santa Clara County between 2019 and 2021.

Is Caltrain's drop in revenue also due to shoplifting and vagabonds?

And I won't deny the impact of COVID and remote work. But remote workers don't stay at the Hilton and covid is almost long gone. I would expect eateries in downtown to have shut down, but Westgate has been the anchor of SF suburban shopping... Perhaps the suburban upscale shopping malls are significantly more profitable now that tech workers work from home?

 

[Cuddles]

And I won't deny the impact of COVID and remote work. But remote workers don't stay at the Hilton and covid is almost long gone. I would expect eateries in downtown to have shut down, but Westgate has been the anchor of SF suburban shopping... Perhaps the suburban upscale shopping malls are significantly more profitable now that tech workers work from home?

I said on the back of COVID. COVID strained reserves for businesses, remote work wiped them out.

The only reason for retail to exist anymore is clothes and big items. Much easier to one click yourself something in between assignments at home than to detour for whatever during your commute. Clothes returns are becoming increasingly easy too w/home pickups so I can see retail going the way of the dodo as well.

Plus no need for fancy clothes if you're in your pajamas all day.

I've had this argument w/cons on here before w/cable news vs online news.

As for the Hilton....I suspect much of their clientele may have been business travel related. Many more meetings and contracts are happening online as well.

 

[VicBee]

I said on the back of COVID. COVID strained reserves for businesses, remote work wiped them out.

The only reason for retail to exist anymore is clothes and big items. Much easier to one click yourself something in between assignments at home than to detour for whatever during your commute. Clothes returns are becoming increasingly easy too w/home pickups so I can see retail going the way of the dodo as well.

Plus no need for fancy clothes if you're in your pajamas all day.

I've had this argument w/cons on here before w/cable news vs online news.

As for the Hilton....I suspect much of their clientele may have been business travel related. Many more meetings and contracts are happening online as well.

I think these are all shortcut assumptions, but I'm not in the US now. Here in Singapore business is booming again, flights and hotels are full, restaurants are struggling a bit, but notoriously high rents have gone up 50-100% in the last couple of years and being blamed for lower attendance although it's impossible to get a reservation less than 3 days ahead for lunch in mid priced eateries. I'd say less than 25% of workers are working from home nowadays.

 

[Cuddles]

I think these are all shortcut assumptions, but I'm not in the US now. Here in Singapore business is booming again, flights and hotels are full, restaurants are struggling a bit, but notoriously high rents have gone up 50-100% in the last couple of years and being blamed for lower attendance although it's impossible to get a reservation less than 3 days ahead for lunch in mid priced eateries. I'd say less than 25% of workers are working from home nowadays.

I don't have a good sense of geographical comparison though I suspect businesses will boom in a densely populated area w/condos and proximity to housing (tokyo, manhattan maybe). If you work from home on top of a coffee shop w/a boutique across the street sort of scenario. San Fran?

 

[Ricter]

Every time I see this one come up I think, "San Francisco has fallen, long live San Francisco!"
(But first I check to see if San Francisco is still there. )

 

[VicBee]

I don't have a good sense of geographical comparison though I suspect businesses will boom in a densely populated area w/condos and proximity to housing (tokyo, manhattan maybe). If you work from home on top of a coffee shop w/a boutique across the street sort of scenario. San Fran?

I know San Francisco well enough. I was a cab driver there during my college summer breaks, a million years ago. I had a terrible feeling about the city when I was last there visiting in 2021. I expect it will be worse still when a visit in July, but we shall see ..

 

[elderado]

Clearly, SF is a great city if you're homeless. I don't understand why more homeless don't want to live there - there's so many services available! Perhaps if homeless people were just given the opportunity to move?

 

[smallfil]

To be fair, Westgate is also walking from properties in other states. This is more an overall death of the retail facing than it is a SF thing. Its been coming a long time.

Retail is dying in San Francisco because looting is now legal. As long as it does not exceed $900.00. Hell, CA DAs are not even filing any charges to those caught if at all. And people wonder why hordes of thieves are ransacking big retailers including, grocery and clothing stores?