Sample Futures Spread Portfolio Capital Requirements (CHEAP)

[ballsofgold]

Both he and the other guy are probably using retail IB to trade, and not an institutional-grade FCM, so they might not understand the institutional clearing/credit authorization dynamics, which goes for any product, exchange traded or OTC traded.

This thread seems to sum it up quite well:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/printthread.php?t=236174

no I am def a pro trader - prop, institutional and fund. However, some of these energy products are not my area of expertise. As a matter of fact, historically to get access to web ice you needed to be 10mm USD liquid in order to trade it. So now all of a sudden web ice products are available through a TT gateway and this guy in a chicago is a guru in one of the most esoteric markets in the world? i dont think so.....Most chicago based firms trade listed futures, so if he is not doing it personally, through which firm in chicago is he trading PJM vs NG heat rate - yeah right! EVen though its offered on TT, i doubt the credit requirements have changed to trade them, which is more of a reason to be suspicious..... open up your eyes Mr Woods...if you understood the the institutional clearing/credit authorization dynamics, risk and credit officer would grant access that easily to these ICE products....it just doesnt work that way, especially for a personal account.

Admittedly, I did not realize that ICE offered it. So that has clarified some of my questions. I found an inconsistency but seemed to have been misinformed on my part trying to verify it on CME when it trades on ICE - MY MISTAKE

i did find it strange that he mentioned the GOLD LME vs COMEX arb when it is actually COPPER that is arbitraged between the two exchanges.

So is he just regurgitating things or is he the real deal?




I would like answers to very specific questions in order to verify claims bc something is not adding up. Exactly which PJM contract do you trade as they seem to be many vs which heat rate swap without necessarily having to expose your strategy.



On your website it says you can get a better price on the screen. I would like to go back and verify this as normally, there is very little liquidity and you need to do blocks with the broker at 25 to 50 lots minimum clips on such products. The tick data should confirm either what you are saying or what i am saying.

Just bc you know it exists and it actually trades on ICE, doesn't actually mean you know how to trade the spread.

 

[bone]

My CV, my professional references, and my client references explain my background in great detail. I have experience trading pit, electronic prop and HF and commercial energy since 1992. I've had over 100 client the past several years who are also ET members - they each perform due diligence and not one of them has ever claimed that I am a fraud.

The facts are that WebICE and Clearport products have been available on TT to qualified firms and independents from approved FCMs for about a decade - and PJM-W and LN in particular, proves that it is you that is deficient.

I've had clients call ICAP, Amerex, and TFS to see if they know me. Check. The power product manager for ICE in Houston knows me personally.

But since you've been such a dick go find out for yourself. If you can't have a mature discourse without the harassment and name calling, I will not share any info with you and of course I wouldn't consider you becoming a client. Bugger off.

 

[ballsofgold]

My CV, my professional references, and my client references explain my background in great detail. I have experience trading pit, electronic prop and HF and commercial energy since 1992. I've had over 100 client the past several years who are also ET members - they each perform due diligence and not one of them has ever claimed that I am a fraud.

The facts are that WebICE and Clearport products have been available on TT to qualified firms and independents from approved FCMs for about a decade - and PJM-W and LN in particular, proves that it is you that is deficient.

I've had clients call ICAP, Amerex, and TFS to see if they know me. Check. The power product manager for ICE in Houston knows me personally.

But since you've been such a dick go find out for yourself. If you can't have a mature discourse without the harassment and name calling, I will not share any info with you and of course I wouldn't consider you becoming a client. Bugger off.

yes you are right, some of the web ice financially settled swaps were made available through TT. However, in order to get access to them you need to be declared as an ECP which is an "'elected contract participant'' and you need to prove a certain credit worthiness and liquidity. We are talking millions here.

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/cftc-addresses-definition-of-eligible-co-09549/

to get access to clearport you need at least 5 million, it doesnt say it on the internet, but i know having been a clearport user for professional firms. i am not sure if this has changed in the past year. Even if you are liquid enough as an ECP, a broker may not grant you access to power markets and electricity markets simply bc of client suitably. Neither would a futures firm like Advantage futures, which you have as a statement on your website with no company letterhead.

if you look at block trading procedures for ice, they are done in 15 lot minimums and do not trade liquid like nat gas physical future. So how does a traditional broker market all of a sudden have more liquidity on the screen when hardly no volume trades on the screen. this is bullsh!T.

my point is that just bc its available on ice does not mean anything. you have said that on your website you have found more liquidity using TT than in the broker market which is quackery. You cannot even tell me which contract so i can check the tick data.

i had no intentions to doubt your credential but rather initially inquired as a client but only to find that you dont know what you are talking about.

good luck making money trading the lme vs comex gold arbitrage. that doesnt exist either.

i am done here.

 

[jtrader33]

If you can't have a mature discourse without the harassment and name calling, I will not share any info with you and of course I wouldn't consider you becoming a client. Bugger off.

The irony is that you address anything that you find inflammatory while ignoring other questions. I've been polite and posed a legitimate question that you've continually ignored.

 

[ballsofgold]

The irony is that you address anything that you find inflammatory while ignoring other questions. I've been polite and posed a legitimate question that you've continually ignored.

hi Jtrader,
i think Bone is a guy with a lot of expereince bc he def says a lot of good things but i think he is talking himself to be much more than what he is.......for his consultancy business.

i wanted to show you the chart completion to the trade i sent you last night, and you can see the mean reversion within the greater channel trend. I normally make money on these trades, but did not on this particular one as i got impatient waiting for it to come back. but the initial idea was correct.

Why do custom sprends trend? its bc if the products are correlated, they do not diverge erratically but happens over time as people try to put them back in line in the short term. that's what i believe but that's a topic of discussion in itself.

 

[Baron]

This thread was getting out of hand near the end, so it has been cleaned up and pruned to get it civil again.

 

[nth]

the issue is that he is asking for 7,500 usd on the basis of these claims. i have been frauded before and its not a good feeling.

normally i dont post much on ET, but after seeing this and having been FUNK''d hard before, i felt compelled that other people need to proceed with caution.

you can still choose to pay him 7,500 usd if you like.

Thanks for stepping forward. It sure takes some big balls of gold. I was hesitant because he is a sponsor. And for that I am thankful. It is the best entertainment a guy that trades from home can get.

But drownpruf has hit this nail square over the head. Bone uses "client this and client that". But he is not licensed. That is not my definition of a client relationship. They are his customers. And it his job to take the gold from their mouth, regardless of how he packages this thing. What I am saying is that they are offered no protection, as in a true client relationship in legal terms. He should not be working one on one, is my take. It is my understanding that without a license, he can sell material but is not bound to fiduciary duty. And to take on that responsibility requires a license in most situations.

He should follow all the regulations that all the other Sponsors need to follow is my take. You are right BOG, it's no fun being defrauded. And even though it's likely that this guy is making money trading, the fact that he is not licensed should be declared right under his tag. Good thing drownpruf pointed that out, or I would have probably never known.

 

[Maverick74]

Thanks for stepping forward. It sure takes some big balls of gold. I was hesitant because he is a sponsor. And for that I am thankful. It is the best entertainment a guy that trades from home can get.

But drownpruf has hit this nail square over the head. Bone uses "client this and client that". But he is not licensed. That is not my definition of a client relationship. They are his customers. And it his job to take the gold from their mouth, regardless of how he packages this thing. What I am saying is that they are offered no protection, as in a true client relationship in legal terms. He should not be working one on one, is my take. It is my understanding that without a license, he can sell material but is not bound to fiduciary duty. And to take on that responsibility requires a license in most situations.

He should follow all the regulations that all the other Sponsors need to follow is my take. You are right BOG, it's no fun being defrauded. And even though it's likely that this guy is making money trading, the fact that he is not licensed should be declared right under his tag. Good thing drownpruf pointed that out, or I would have probably never known.

Actually, I don't think that is true. I could be wrong about this, but it is my understanding that the licensing requirement was created to protect the "general public". NOT the professional community. I believe Bone qualifies all his clients to make sure they are not mom and pop or newbie types. If he qualifies them as professionals, then he is not required to be licensed. It might be the reason why he doesn't accept non professional types. Once you start marketing stuff to professionals, through the eyes of the regulatory folks, they believe you are knowledgeable enough to protect yourself, whereas the general public is not.

I guess the grey area is what he says on ET being that ET is a community of both. I think as long as he does not actually engage in a business transaction with non pros then he is OK. This is in the same vein as marketing a hedge fund or investment fund to accredited investors. As long as you "qualify" them, you are allowed a certain number of individuals and assets before you need to register.

 

[bone]

He should follow all the regulations that all the other Sponsors need to follow is my take. You are right BOG, it's no fun being defrauded. And even though it's likely that this guy is making money trading, the fact that he is not licensed should be declared right under his tag. Good thing drownpruf pointed that out, or I would have probably never known.

Who's being defrauded by me, exactly ? Have some proof. I have had over 100 ET Members who have been clients. Where are they posting that I have ripped them off and defrauded them somehow ? Have any of them contacted Baron and complained about getting somehow defrauded ?

 

[drownpruf]

Actually, I don't think that is true. I could be wrong about this, but it is my understanding that the licensing requirement was created to protect the "general public". NOT the professional community. I believe Bone qualifies all his clients to make sure they are not mom and pop or newbie types. If he qualifies them as professionals, then he is not required to be licensed. It might be the reason why he doesn't accept non professional types. Once you start marketing stuff to professionals, through the eyes of the regulatory folks, they believe you are knowledgeable enough to protect yourself, whereas the general public is not.

I guess the grey area is what he says on ET being that ET is a community of both. I think as long as he does not actually engage in a business transaction with non pros then he is OK. This is in the same vein as marketing a hedge fund or investment fund to accredited investors. As long as you "qualify" them, you are allowed a certain number of individuals and assets before you need to register.

He can't do so on a "one on one" basis. He can send newsletters and other mass-media type advice, but not one on one, and certainly not with retail. He advertises that he works with traders from "$15k to millions." His above post re-states that he has "over 100 ET clients" in which the demographic is something over 90% retail traders. Let's be conservative and put the number at half. That's in excess of 50 retail traders. Regardless, the NFA disagrees. I told Baron I would not pose comments directly to this guy.