S&P isn't the problem, Term Limits is the problem.

[lindq]

Quote from Lucrum:

Another major problem dragging us down which needs to be corrected. Of course there aren't any career politicians to speak of willing to make any changes, yet another reason for congressional term limits.

I'm open to any good ideas...but I don't see what the advantage is in term limits.

If the point is to remove career politicians from office, well, the flip side is that you get a whole new batch of inexperienced morons coming in every few years and creating havoc, just as we've experienced lately.

And length of term isn't going to solve our main problem, which is influence by well-organized and well-funded corporate and political interest groups. They will still control the governing and voting process, now matter what the length of term.

"Senator Smith, you know you're only going to be in office for six years. But what are you going to do after that? Well, I'll tell ya, the folks at Americans for Free Communications and I want to make sure you know we have a top slot waiting for you at the end of your term. We're thinking Senior VP of Government Relations, and I think you'd be just perfect for the job. So please give that just a little thought while you read over this here piece of legislation we've put together. And if you and the missus have time tonight, why Betty and I'd love to have you join us for dinner at the Four Seasons. And this weekend, well, we're taking the ketch out for a sail in Annapolis, and you just have to come along."

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from lindq:

I'm open to any good ideas...but I don't see what the advantage is in term limits.

If the point is to remove career politicians from office, well, the flip side is that you get a whole new batch of inexperienced morons coming in every few years and creating havoc, just as we've experienced lately.

And experienced morons are better than inexperienced morons? I guess I see the biggest advantage being eliminating or at least reducing the corruption of being obsessed with re-election. If I know I'm not eligible for another term seems to me I'm more likely to do what's in the best interest of the country instead of whats in the best interest of my perpetual campaign to stay in power. These guys have exempted themselves from laws and programs they shove down our throats and treat themselves like royalty instead of our representatives. I'm of the opinion limiting their time in power would at least improve this situation.

And length of term isn't going to solve our main problem, which is influence by well-organized and well-funded corporate and political interest groups. They will still control the governing and voting process, now matter what the length of term.

Oh I don't think for a minute term limits alone will solve all our problems overnight. I do see it as a major step in the right direction. But yes other things need to be changed as well.
Of course until tax paying patriots such as ourselves stop talking/debating details and start making things happen this is all moot.

 

[lindq]

Quote from Lucrum:


Of course until tax paying patriots such as ourselves stop talking/debating details and start making things happen this is all moot.

Well, we can certainly agree on that point.

But what will make things happen? Do you have any faith in the electoral system that has now been totally corrupted by money and corporate managed media?

So what's the alternative?

If things worsen, IMO only broad-based demonstrations and acts of civil disobedience will send any message.

We may get to the point where the White House is surrounded by buses for protection, and tear gas fills the air. It has happened before.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from lindq:

But what will make things happen? Do you have any faith in the electoral system that has now been totally corrupted by money and corporate managed media?

NO! yet another reason I think term limits would at least help our situation.

So what's the alternative?

If things worsen, IMO only broad-based demonstrations and acts of civil disobedience will send any message.

In the absence of big changes in our system and SOON, I agree.

 

[wjk]

Quote from lindq:


So what's the alternative?

Perhaps it's time for them to start using modern media capabilities for their disussions and debates regarding legislation and other actions. Take them out of the beltway. Let them work from their homes where they can be quickly held to account by their constituents.

 

[Random.Capital]

Quote from lindq:

But what will make things happen?

Voters at the polls, or blood in the streets.

There are no other ways. Never have been. And it seems us humans need fairly frequent doses of the latter to remind us of the value and importance of the former.

 

[Random.Capital]

Quote from Lucrum:

We have speed limits,

...which are mostly ignored...

...fish and game limits...

...poaching is rampant.

political donation limits

...circumvented from day one in eighteen hundred different ways...

...term limits on the POTUS...

...which has proven completely ineffectual...

Think of congressional term limits as simply a way of forcing the voting public to stop being so selfish and stupid. [/B]

That is an IMPOSSIBLE task. You cannot legislate "anti-stupidity". Can't be done. The idea that you could was in fact a cornerstone of Marxism - you are in effect repackaging a key component of Marxist philosophy.

Since the only possible upside is impossible, that leaves only negative outcomes as possible.

 

[DT-waw]

blood on the streets? won't happen. american people are too obese to move their asses from the couch and start a fight.

prefer to watch sports on TV....

and this is the real problem. not the bush, not the S&P, not the congress.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Random.Capital:

You cannot legislate "anti-stupidity". Can't be done.

I generally agree but then congressional term limits wouldn't stop stupidity merely limit it

The idea that you could was in fact a cornerstone of Marxism - you are in effect repackaging a key component of Marxist philosophy.

Bull Shit

Since the only possible upside is impossible, that leaves only negative outcomes as possible.

More BULL SHIT, now you're just being obtuse. Not to mention, AGAIN, you have yet to provide a single specific negative outcome.

So what's your real beef with term limits? You a clerk for a career politician or a career politician yourself? I can't imagine anyone else being so adamantly opposed, even if they think it wouldn't work.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from DT-waw:

blood on the streets? won't happen. american people are too obese to move their asses from the couch and start a fight.

Well we did bail out Europe from two world wars.