So Russia has endured over 100,000 dead and another 100,000 wounded according to most accounting. Let's see the casualty figures for Ukraine.
Ukraine lost fewer than 15,000 troops, EU countries’ intelligence says
https://www.euractiv.com/section/de...-15000-troops-eu-countries-intelligence-says/
Ukraine’s armed forces, gearing up to retake the eastern city of Bakhmut this spring, have altogether lost fewer than 15,000 troops since the Russian invasion began last February, according to excerpts of an internal EU memo seen by EURACTIV.
Since the start of Russia’s war in Ukraine, very few numbers related to personnel and equipment losses on the Ukrainian side have been made publicly available, with Kyiv and its Western allies reluctant to reveal any critical information to Russia.
In November, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen came under fire for publishing and then unpublishing a video containing what appeared then to be a very high estimate of 100,000 killed Ukrainian military officers, prompting a backlash from Kyiv.
Around the same time, nine months into the war, the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, General, Mark Milley, estimated that both Ukraine and Russia had lost around 100,000 people each before the winter started.
Russian losses are higher than Ukrainians
In what appears to be one of the first semi-official estimates that made its way to the West, an internal document in the hands of the EU diplomatic service, seen by EURACTIV, put the losses of Ukraine’s armed forces at 13,000 personnel killed during combat, with an additional 35,000 wounded in action.
The document also noted that according to US estimates, Kyiv has lost 17,500 personnel killed in action, and a total of 124,000 to 131,000 people disabled, whether from wounds, death or disappearance, or other reason.
Still, the document, based on the Ukrainian communication to member states, media reports, and intelligence leaks, assessed that the Ukrainian losses are lower than the US estimates.
The figures in the document seen by EURACTIV show “that the volume of losses is globally very big on both sides,” Romain Mielcarek, a journalist specialised in influence strategies in conflict, told EURACTIV.
The internal memo seen by EURACTIV said Ukrainian officials asses that 185,000 Russians were killed during the course of the war and 555,000 were wounded.
It compared these figures with the data leaked from US intelligence, reported by the New York Times, suggesting that the Russian Armed Forces have suffered 189,500 to 223,000 casualties, including 43,000 killed in action, since February 24 last year.
US figures match British intelligence estimates that around 200,000 Russian soldiers were killed or wounded since the invasion.
“This shows that wounded Russians will most likely not make it from the frontline, whereas the evacuation, rescue, and casualty management protocols appear to be much more effective on the Ukrainian side,” Mielcarek said.
“Research shows that if the soldiers have trust in their side to save them, they are more inclined to take initiatives and risks, which makes these figures interesting, strategically.”
This Ukrainian’s ability to save their wounded is also a testament to the training they receive from Western military powers, Mielcarek said.
Kyiv’s armed forces currently benefit from different types of training organised by its allies. The European Union launched its military mission, EUMAM, last autumn, which aims at training at least 30,000 troops.
The United Kingdom and the United States also provide military courses on different equipment.
Figures ‘bad for morale’
Western diplomats and military officials have told EURACTIV that although loss estimates are frequently cited in Western intelligence and media reports, it is nearly impossible to have the casualty toll on either side officially confirmed.
“Both sides refrain from giving figures, in order for them to avoid the other side using it as a tool for propaganda,” Mielcarek told EURACTIV.
On the Ukranian side especially, “it is a communication strategy: they must take into account the impact on their troops, on their populations, on the opposite side, on their allies’ morale [in providing military support],” Mielcarek also said.
General Claudio Graziano, the former chairman of the EU’s military committee, told EURACTIV on the sidelines of the European Defence and Security Summit on Thursday (11 May), that full Russian losses “will probably be known only after the end of the war”.
“In any case, it’s going to be one the bloodiest war in the European territory.”
Russia is still mobilising and training fresh troops to send to the battlefield, whereas Western ammunition production and the EU’s delivery plans for Ukraine will not come into effect earlier than a year from now, he warned.
Different military strategies
The Kremlin ordered a war mobilisation last September, calling up around 300,000 Russian men to fight in Ukraine.
According to the United Kingdom’s intelligence, 97% of the Russian army is currently in Ukraine, EURACTIV has learned.
But although this was meant to provide reinforcement on the battlefield, Western officials said the move was merely about sending poorly trained personnel to the battlefield as cannon fodder, causing Russia to suffer heavy losses.
“One of the most important aspects is in the organisation of the Russian Federation’s army, which is largely inherited from the Soviet model, is that they rely on two main pillars to get the edge: the large volumes of men sent to the front, and the massive use of artillery,” Mielcarek said.
While such a strategy “implies consequent volumes of human casualties”, it has almost always been accepted in the public opinion, he said, excluding the time the Soviet Union was pushed to retreat from Afghanistan in 1989 after suffering heavy losses and a backlash from its own population.
StratCom
However, Mielcarek pointed to different communication strategies on the two sides.
“Even though the Ukrainians refuse to reveal figures, they show their dead, they have invited journalists to cover ceremonies, take pictures, interview the survivors.”
For Ukraine, the priority is the supply of military equipment, as well as sanctions on the Russian economy.
Kyiv has been regularly asking its allies to provide modern military equipment, such as tanks and fighter jets, as well as long-range missiles.
On the EU’s side, a strong focus has also been put on supplying Kyiv with ammunition.
The European Commission proposed this week a new package of sanctions against Russia, to continue targeting its military-industrial complex and punish any circumvention of sanctions by other countries, such as Iran or China, which are supplying Moscow with the technologies it needs to continue the war.
“Russia has already lost, but for Ukraine to win, it will take time,” General Graziano said.
Russia & Ukraine
- Thread starter UsualName
- Start date
It is irrelevant what he is, the message is quite clear, and in relevance to the stats posted previously by GWB, that ratio is totally dense. If you believe it, sorry but it would make you bit dense too.
LOL
Reality... straight from the mouths of Kremlin propagandists.
Panicking Pro-Kremlin Propagandists Warn of Ukrainian Invasion of Russia
Panic over the start of the Ukrainian counter-offensive – which may well not yet really have kicked off – is already flooding Russian Telegram channels.
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/16968
A local but apparently successful Ukrainian counterattack in the battleground city Bakhmut has triggered shock waves of panic across the Russian media space, with the most pessimistic doomsayers predicting Kyiv will try to conquer a couple of provinces of western Russia.
Wagner PMC boss Yevgeniy Prigozhin led off the negative vibes with a May 11 audio message confirming reports his mercenary unit had lost ground in the Bakhmut sector, and angrily contracting statements Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky made the day previously that the attacks were local and unconnected with Kyiv’s long-awaited Spring counteroffensive.
"As for the counter-offensive, Zelensky is lying; it is well underway. In the direction of Bakhmut, Ukrainian army units are flanking, and, unfortunately, they are succeeding in some of the positions,” Prigozhin said. The former felon and one-time cook for Vladimir Putin used vulgar language to accuse Russian army high command of failing to support Wagner fighters and opening the door to major Ukrainian advances and even the invasion of Russia.
“The Ukrainian armed forces need to break through in the direction of the Bakhmut. The next directions (objectives) will be Bryansk and Belgorod regions with access to the territory of the Russian Federation, as well as Zaporizhzhia, after which (the Ukrainians) are planning to go in the northern and southern directions."
Igor Strelkov, a Russian nationalist blogger and former Kremlin operative now wanted by Interpol for his role in the 2014 MH17 civilian airline shoot down during the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine’s Donbas region at the time, like Prighozhin predicted the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) high"
An offensive may have begun or is about to start…Diversionary strikes could be launched on the "old border" (Belgorod, Kursk, Bryansk regions) to seize several settlements and provoke the Russian Armed Forces to storm them (until their destruction), Strelkov fumed. command has readied plans to seize territory in Russia's Kursk and Bryansk regions.
A long-running and highly-public feud with Prigozhin notwithstanding, Strelkov like the Wagner boss said Russian army high command corruption and incompetence, and the military top leadership’s failure to prepare for Ukrainian attacks, was threatening Russian national security.
The Russian Ministry of Defense’s public outreach team responded to reports of collapsing Kremlin forces and looming AFU attacks with a statement that, actually, everything is under control and reports of a deteriorating military situation are exaggerated.
"Statements circulated by individual networks services about "defense breakthroughs" occurring in various sections of the front line are untrue" an announcement on the Russian Defense Ministry official website said.
High profile Russian “war correspondent” Simon Pegov in a May 12 post conceded the Ukrainian military has made recent progress and might well do so in the future but, he told subscribers, war is war and the worst thing to fear is not Kyiv’s weapons but a general collapse of Russian morale.
“Today's events cannot be taken seriously. The enemy has progress. Somewhere more, somewhere less, but it is, and will have an impact on the further development of events.
The offensive did not begin today or yesterday, the enemy is daily looking for our weak points and trying to hit them, Pegov wrote. “All of these are pieces of the same puzzle. And where the last piece will fall is not yet clear. Therefore, it is criminal to treat what is happening frivolously. To panic is like death.”
But Dmitry Rogozin, a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin currently head of the “Tsarist Wolves” military advisor group, weighed in with the argument that Ukraine – an opponent Kremlin spokesmen in Feb. 2022 had predicted would be defeated utterly in a three day cakewalk campaign – is now such a fearsome opponent that Russians have no alternative but total mobilization for a fight to the death against a superior opponent.
"Defeating such a beast (Ukraine), which has felt our blood, can only be achieved through the complete unity of front and rear. We have to keep in mind that the enemy (the Ukrainian army) is much stronger than we are. We cannot act in such a way here that it is every man for himself. It will not work that way,” Rogozin said in a May 11 statement. “That's why there has to be another mobilization. We need help with the staff. Because guys are wounded, our fighters are killed. Even when the front is at a standstill, there are artillery attacks. We are losing combat-ready guys. They need to be replaced," he said.
By the evening of May 11 Kremlin-loyal Russian military correspondents began to report preparations for Ukrainian attacks and even advances by Kyiv troops in new sectors.
"The Kyiv regime (Ukraine) has launched an operation to encircle our forces. There are reports of a Ukrainian breakthrough towards Belhorodka and Yagodne (Donetsk region). Our troops have retreated from their positions," wrote Russian military correspondent Evgeniy Poddubny in a Telegram-published report.
Columns of AFU tanks, self-propelled artillery systems (SAU), multiple rocket launchers (MLRS), and armored vehicles with infantry were moving eastward in the north-eastern Kharkiv sector, adjacent to Russia’s Belgorod Oblast’, the pro-Russia Gazeta.ru newspaper reported. “Modern tanks produced by Western countries were seen in the columns,” the May 12 article said.
I was born and lived in Russia my first 16 years. You are Chinese, apparently. Who knows "Russian mentality" better?
My comment was only about the master manipulator tweeter. Nothing else.
Have fun deciphering what is truth and what is not. But you only seem to have hard time understanding what is true/false from Ukraine or the west.
French TV puts some low-testosterone "male" on air to talk about the Ukrainians allegedly retreating before Russian Victory Day.
Of course, one could make the argument that no one knows more about retreating armies than the French.
Poland is rapidly replacing both Germany and France in the EU as a power player - both are a complete joke. Yes, Germany has finally contributed some equipment. As they say: "Germany will always do the right thing once its runs out of all other options."
Of course, one could make the argument that no one knows more about retreating armies than the French.
Poland is rapidly replacing both Germany and France in the EU as a power player - both are a complete joke. Yes, Germany has finally contributed some equipment. As they say: "Germany will always do the right thing once its runs out of all other options."
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who is Chinese? Are u related to dinosaurs cause you handle sounds like u may be? Nice logic!
https://news.yahoo.com/russian-attempt-cover-bakhmut-retreat-165520875.html
Russian Attempt to Cover Up Bakhmut Retreat Majorly Backfires
Russian Attempt to Cover Up Bakhmut Retreat Majorly Backfires