That's a good point.
Russia & Ukraine
- Thread starter UsualName
- Start date
The CIA or other intel may have already tapped him or another crew member.
Note that the Black Fleet moved out of Sevatopol into the Sea of Asov and continues to stay away from Ukraine. The Russians are real nervous about how the Americans are able to intercept info about the fleet and give it to the Ukrainians.
The best thing he could proffer up (playing the long game) would have nothing to do with Ukraine... I'd milk him for submarine intel.
Ya know though Tree.... even though these people might hate Putin, one has to think that perhaps they still consider themselves loyal Russian patriots. Russia is a proud strong nation with a long history of its people enduring unbelievable hardships and psychotic leaders.... the ones that are truly high up on the military totem poles... they might not be as easy of a mark as we may think. They could despise Putin, but still have a fierce loyalty to Mother Russia don't ya think? I mean for real, these aren't Taliban warlords or the like.
Oh most definitely. They are in service to the Motherland and every person, has an affinity for their country of birth. As an Irish priest- who got in trouble for saying it- once said about the Catholic Church: "Although the Church may sometimes be a toothless whore, you must always remember that it is many people's mother." Maybe I digressed there, maybe not.
That is why the Ukrainians have- properly in my view- from the beginning argued to the Russian people that Putin is not just destroying Ukraine, he is destroying Russia and its heritage. Aside from the propaganda, it is true too isn't it? Putin's great Russian World vision that he was promoting has reduced Russia to the North Korea of the steppes. And great heritage of the Russian Orthodox Church which was the foundation of the whole Russian World restoration has been reduced to shambles because the Moscow church sided with Putin. So the Ukrainians left their jurisdiction and joined the partriarch in Constantinople and Russians are abandoning the pro-war church left and right. What a mess. And their Chinese masters will kill off any religion over time further erasing Russian heritage.
But yes, absolutely. The approach should never be to try to convince the soldiers that they are bad to be Russian. It should always be to convince them that they are serving Russia but Putin is not. Unfortunately, they need to figure that all out before getting to Ukraine or else they need to be "neutralized" because where their love of Russia requires them to kill someones family, well that is a bad mix. I like to see these guys flee or surrender before doing the dirty in Ukraine. Some of the ones who surrender in Ukraine still need to be charged with war crimes. Not all. But some.
This question goes way beyond me... but can parallels be drawn between this and the U.S. Civil War? In a way?
Yes. of course. 100%. Unless one is a far lefty.
The Confederate soldiers were serving their country and their tradition and families as honorably as they could, even though the aims of the war were misguided.
People forget that Lincoln first offered command of the Union Army to none other Robert E. Lee but he declined and told Lincoln: "I must serve my country." And by his "country" he meant Virginia.
There always has to be compassion for the regular soldier who is just cranked out by his culture and country and is often just a pawn in a larger game.
This is complicated stuff though. You can have sympathy for those of any country who get caught up in the net of war, but when they go on to commit acts of depravity it is another matter. You may recall that back at the beginning of the war some Russian kid shot and killed a man on the street and the Ukrainians gave him life in prison. I can see that but thought it was too harsh. Then a month later the Ukrainians reduced it to seventeen years. I can see that too. It's complicated. The soldier is not innocent but neither is the war machine that created him. He probably had no commanding officer within ten miles and would have preferred to be home and was just a clueless dumbfuck adrift.
I brought this up last week, and someone here that has people in Ukraine pointed this out to me... (edit: it was virtusa) and I certainly respected their opinion, but Tree.... you don't think the Ukrainians are also torturing the f out of those they capture?
At least some of them? I mean we only know what we hear.. And you can bet if Ukrainian soldiers end up marching into Russian towns... the same bs will happen. It would be exactly like what happened in WW2 when Berlin fell.
For as far as humanity has come in the last 2000 years.... in so many ways, we haven't evolved a bit.
Well if you ignore the hundreds of videos of Russian prisoners interviewed in Ukraine captivity stating they have been treated well.
Of course they have, NATO and the Western media is sitting right there watching. Do you think they'd be filming anything else?
