Russia & Ukraine

UsualName said:
Don’t be so sure about the Europeans and Brits. Allowing the Russians to move east is a true security threat. They will have high prices and deep economic troubles but nothing like Russians moving east with guns. I’d be surprised if they fold.
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I am not saying I am sure about Western politicians, what I am saying is that the people will start trashing everything and the social unrest is what will be the trigger. That or we will all be shipped to fight the Russians. In the UK the energy bills will be going up from around £1800 per year to like £5500 per year from January. And business's energy has not been capped by regulators, so how many of them will go immediately bust? This simply isn't sustainable.
 
Master Pu said:
I am not saying I am sure about Western politicians, what I am saying is that the people will start trashing everything and the social unrest is what will be the trigger. That or we will all be shipped to fight the Russians. In the UK the energy bills will be going up from around £1800 per year to like £5500 per year from January. And business's energy has not been capped by regulators, so how many of them will go immediately bust? This simply isn't sustainable.
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No doubt it’s crunch time on energy prices in Europe and this is indeed where Putin is putting his leverage. The Europeans have endured worse in the past. I think they will stay the course.
 
UsualName said:
No doubt it’s crunch time on energy prices in Europe and this is indeed where Putin is putting his leverage. The Europeans have endured worse in the past. I think they will stay the course.
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Not the snowflake society we are now a part of. They endured worse during war times when overall, the people were much tougher mentally.
 
Master Pu said:
This isn’t as simple as that, Ukraine didn’t exist back then. It’s like saying Americans are basically English.
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I agree it’s not as simple.

To continue your metaphor and comparison; Russia invading Ukraine would be like the US invading the UK.

The Americas was only a “frontier” from a European colonial perspective. It was populated with sophisticated governance prior to the arrival of European settlers (invaders.)
 
Master Pu said:
Let's not dwell on historical facts, which are debated by scholars, who are we to participate?

The point is that Donbass is filled with ethnic Russians who settled there during the Soviet era, Crimea was 'gifted' to Ukraine during the Soviet era, perhaps there was no caveat attached to the gift, as nobody thought at the time that USSR would one day collapse and Ukraine would want to get a new husband in the form of EU/NATO. So if you at all know Russian mentality, then you would understand that Russia, Putin or be it another President, would never have allowed Crimea to be a part of a westernised Ukraine and in time to have NATO bases located there. It's a matter of principle for Russians. The Ukrainian language is different to the Russian language. Ukrainian traditions and folklore are also different from the Russian ones. There are many similarities of course. What has this to do with what's going on though?
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Russia reniged on promised “security guarantees” in exchange for Ukraine’s nuclear arsenal. Russia is currently a fascist regime with mounting evidence of war crimes and atrocities.
 
Master Pu said:
Not the snowflake society we are now a part of. They endured worse during war times when overall, the people were much tougher mentally.
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Well this where Putin has placed his bets, whether the Europeans can endure but let’s say they cannot does that mean the Ukrainians will just give up?
 
UsualName said:
Well this where Putin has placed his bets, whether the Europeans can endure but let’s say they cannot does that mean the Ukrainians will just give up?
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Without the support of the West, Ukraine has never really stood a chance.
 
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