Russia & Ukraine

[vanzandt]

Random musings:

It says we're sending Claymore mines. I thought those were "illegal" now, civilians getting blown up after the war's over etc. Guess not huh?

And what's up with India? Why aren't they condemning Russia? I always thought they were generally a peace loving culture, Kashmir aside.

If those anti-ship missiles were Ukranian, why haven't they used them sooner? Are they just hiding the fact they came from the UK or US to avoid Putin retaliating somehow against NATO?

Inquiring minds....

Market doesn't seem to care it looks like. Hmmm.
I bet Putin's pissed about that boat though.
Like really pissed.
Oh well, we shall see. Be careful going long over the weekend though.

 

[virtusa]

Wrong. Putin can at that moment start a nuclear war too. What is your guarantee he will not do that? And he knows we are afraid for a nuclear war. He uses our fear to win the fight.

Today Russia is threatening with nuclear weapons against Finland and Sweden if they join NATO.
That's exactly what I predicted. The nuclear threat will now appear everywhere.
We will have one day to take the challenge, or accepts submission to Russia. The sooner we take the challenge, the better as each time Russia will take land or weaken our positions by using the nuclear threat.

Russia wants to decide where and how much weapons he installs, but all other countries should first ask permission to Putin before they can do anything in their own country.
Basically Russia is dreaming of a big Russian army, and no army at all in the rest of Europe. He denies the right for Europe to defend themselve. And Russia is the ONLY country in Europe that invades other countries. They do this already for centuries.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...ic-sea-if-finland-sweden-join-nato/ar-AAWdJIv

What is funny, is that Russia has already nuclear weapons installed in Kaliningrad. So we should feel threatened, not the Russians. And we never invaded any European country to submit it to us like the Russians did already many times.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Even a broken clock is giving twice a day the correct time.
There is a whole list of stupidities that Trump told too.
Never judge just on one event.
Even the biggest idiot sometimes says something smart.

Again, I'm just pointing out how right Trump was in regards to Germany and energy reliance on Russia. And they laughed.

 

[Tsing Tao]

The local nuclear attack was mentioned by a high placed US military. Unfortunatelly I do not save everything I read.

Russia invaded Ukraine and things went horribly wrong for the Russians. But they did not bomb Kiev. That shows that a conflict never goes immediatelly to the extreme. They could easily bomb Kiev, but why did they not do that? That same tactic applies to nuclear. Both sides will first test how far they can go. Or do you believe that the Russian are eager to start a nuclear war? If they would be eager they would already have started. What's the advantage to start a nuclear war that will also kill all Russians? What does Putin win with that?

So if NATO would be attacked, they would accept a nuclear war? Or would they let the Russian do what they wish?
Medvedev already said a few days ago that Russia wants to build an empire from Portugal to the far east.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...ry-medvedev-vladimir-putin-empire-west-lisbon

Again I'm saying that NATO doctrine specifically states direct intervention if a NATO member is attacked directly. Putin, knowing this is the red line, won't cross it.

If you make me say the same things over and over again, its going to get very boring.

 

[virtusa]

Again I'm saying that NATO doctrine specifically states direct intervention if a NATO member is attacked directly. Putin, knowing this is the red line, won't cross it.

If you make me say the same things over and over again, its going to get very boring.

So he can attack Finland and Sweden and for us that's ok?
Sweden and Finland are no NATO members yet, but Putin is creating a sphere of hostility and warfare. So while doing that he is not crossing the red line, but shows who should take precautions against who.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

So he can attack Finland and Sweden and for us that's ok?

We are obligated to come to the defense of other Nato members.

With other countries, it is optional and at our discretion, Ukraine being Exhibit A.

No doubt we would move to help defend Sweden and Finland but EVERYTHING is at our discretion. They may be thankful for everything we do. Or they may moan that it is not enough. That is inherent in their decision to not join Nato which everyone has respected in past years. But you can't be a non-member and then try to buy an insurance policy just on the days you are being threatened by war and then drop out afterwards. Figure out whether you are in the boat or not. If you ain't you ain't.

Also- and this does not apply to Sweden or Finland- but we don't necessarily want every country that wants to be a member. Ukraine being Exhibit A again. Countries need to be stable and not already at war and not have a long history of corruption or being unsure which side they are on in the world at the time of application. Some countries - Turkey being Exhibit A- I would boot out in a micro-second. Who the hell let them in? The thought that we are theoretically obligated to come to their defense over their latest snakey flap with another snakey country is absurd.

Turkey is a weird one though. They are buddy buddy with Vlad, buddy buddy with a bunch of Islamic trash, yet they have been the primary supplier of missiles to Ukraine - beyond Ukraine's home grown ones. They are on both sides of every issue everywhere. Snakes.

 

[UsualName]

Not really. I just made a point that you were not able to understand. The same point that Trump made and people could not understand it. Well, you ilk anyway. Pro-Americans get it instantaneously.

The point being that both Putin and Xi are strong leaders for looking out for their own country and advancing their own causes even if the goals are jaundiced.

They have long term multi-decade goals and work toward them feverishly decade in and decade out.

Meanwhile, your crew is busy trying to figure out which bathroom to use and which northern triangle country to protect and enhance this week, and which part of our history and culture should be canceled this week.

I see. First of all, Putin and Xi are not “strong leaders” they are strongman leaders. You align with squashing opposition and a state of totalitarianism. This works in your mind because you can’t stand any other ways of thinking than your own. If people agree with you then you get along, if they disagree you attack and resort to lies and misinformation - just like Trump. And that is the threat with Trump. Democracy does not work for autocrats. The man cannot walk off into the sunset. We had an insurrection and an attack on the will of the people you all still deny and you deny it because at the end of the day freedom and democracy are not in your core beliefs. You say you’re pro-American, what’s more fundamentally American than respecting the outcome of elections? Yet, you spread lies about voter fraud and support a man who attempted to overtime democracy itself.

You’re pro-American my ass. You’re intolerant. Where you fail as an American is that you are praising authoritarianism to serve your winner take all attitude.

And please don’t conflate all of this with legitimate criticism that you should express. Issues with the border, education, the pandemic, the support for Ukraine is legitimate American stuff. The problem is the lying and false information spreading, undermining democracy - this is where you are not pro-American, you’re being pro-right wing.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

I see. First of all, Putin and Xi are not “strong leaders” they are strongman leaders. You align with squashing opposition and a state of totalitarianism. This works in your mind because you can’t stand any other ways of thinking than your own. If people agree with you then you get along, if they disagree you attack and resort to lies and misinformation - just like Trump. And that is the threat with Trump. Democracy does not work for autocrats. The man cannot walk off into the sunset. We had an insurrection and an attack on the will of the people you all still deny and you deny it because at the end of the day freedom and democracy are not in your core beliefs. You say you’re pro-American, what’s more fundamentally American than respecting the outcome of elections? Yet, you spread lies about voter fraud and support a man who attempted to overtime democracy itself.

You’re pro-American my ass. You’re intolerant. Where you fail as an American is that you are praising authoritarianism to serve your winner take all attitude.

And please don’t conflate all of this with legitimate criticism that you should express. Issues with the border, education, the pandemic, the support for Ukraine is legitimate American stuff. The problem is the lying and false information spreading, undermining democracy - this is where you are not pro-American, you’re being pro-right wing.

I said when I posted that you would not be able to understand my point, and voila.

 

[Tsing Tao]

So he can attack Finland and Sweden and for us that's ok?
Sweden and Finland are no NATO members yet, but Putin is creating a sphere of hostility and warfare. So while doing that he is not crossing the red line, but shows who should take precautions against who.

I didn't say it was OK. For the fourth time now I'm saying that Putin knows there is a direct escalation to an attack on NATO. For the Ukraine, he believed (correctly) that NATO and the US would not risk direct confrontation. It was a gamble, and he was correct (thus far). NATO and the US doesn't want the risk of nuclear war over the Ukraine so they're trying everything under the sun other than direct military response.

If Putin were to attack Finland or Sweden, I believe the risk of direct response from the West goes up 100 fold. Which is why Putin won't do it.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Today Russia is threatening with nuclear weapons against Finland and Sweden if they join NATO.
That's exactly what I predicted. The nuclear threat will now appear everywhere.
We will have one day to take the challenge, or accepts submission to Russia. The sooner we take the challenge, the better as each time Russia will take land or weaken our positions by using the nuclear threat.

Russia wants to decide where and how much weapons he installs, but all other countries should first ask permission to Putin before they can do anything in their own country.
Basically Russia is dreaming of a big Russian army, and no army at all in the rest of Europe. He denies the right for Europe to defend themselve. And Russia is the ONLY country in Europe that invades other countries. They do this already for centuries.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...ic-sea-if-finland-sweden-join-nato/ar-AAWdJIv

What is funny, is that Russia has already nuclear weapons installed in Kaliningrad. So we should feel threatened, not the Russians. And we never invaded any European country to submit it to us like the Russians did already many times.

You're kinda overstating the threat and the article. The threat to deploy nuclear weapons to the Baltic Sea is not the same as using and attacking with nuclear weapons.

NATO must consider what allowing Sweden and Finland into NATO means for the future of relations.