Russia & Ukraine

[virtusa]

Yes. Look up “Bay of Pigs”, the failed US sponsored amphibious assault on Cuba.

From wikipedia.org:

The Bay of Pigs Invasion (Spanish: invasión de bahía de Cochinos; sometimes called invasión de playa Girón or batalla de Girón, after the Playa Girón) was a failed landing operation on the southwestern coast of Cuba in 1961 by Cuban exiles who opposed Fidel Castro's Cuban Revolution, covertly financed and directed by the U.S. government. The operation took place at the height of the Cold War, and its failure led to major shifts in international relations among Cuba, the United States, and the Soviet Union.

The above is just a summary. The full article:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion

There is however a big difference between the Cuban case and the Ukrainian case.

• In Cuba US might have sponsored, but they never invaded Cuba.
• In Ukraine Russia sponsored the Donbass terrorists, and when they could not finish the job, Russia invaded Ukraine.

Maybe a small detail for you, but a huge event for the Western world.
So you cannot say that the US did what Russia is doing now. Left aside that Russia is just killing all Ukrainians; children, women... in short any living human being in Ukraine.
Civilized people call that war crimes.

Russians are telling all the time that there were agreements. But if we remember them other agreements, they ignore them if that fits them better. Russia puts national law above all other laws when it is more convenient for them. So when they are convicted in any court anywhere in the world they don't respect these laws. They clearly don't respect the international agreement that civilians cannot be killed in a war. And prisoners of war should be threated with respect, not executed like the Russians do.

An eye for an eye should be applied on the Russians.

 

[BeautifulStranger]

I covered why the difference between the Cuban crisis and the current one.

Did you disagree with what I said was the major difference?

I have not reached a conclusion. On the surface, your points seem merely a justification for us to do what we want, when we want, hypocrisy be damned!

However, I respect your perspectives and need to have a think before committing to a position regarding your post.

Besides, Bugenhagen may be preparing to educate me!

 

[BeautifulStranger]

Are your replying to me or someone else?

I have many people on ignore so it is hard for me to tell sometimes.

The post was intended for Bugenhagen.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

The post was intended for Bugenhagen.

Ok.

I will give a quick reply on the Cuban Missile Crisis later today.

 

[BeautifulStranger]

There is however a big difference between the Cuban case and the Ukrainian case.

• In Cuba US might have sponsored, but they never invaded Cuba.
• In Ukraine Russia sponsored the Donbass terrorists, and when they could not finish the job, Russia invaded Ukraine.

Maybe a small detail for you, but a huge event for the Western world.
So you cannot say that the US did what Russia is doing now. Left aside that Russia is just killing all Ukrainians; children, women... in short any living human being in Ukraine.
Civilized people call that war crimes.

Russians are telling a

All wars probably see war crimes by both sides. You think any major country was innocent in WWII, for example?

The test in my opinion is if an attack on civilians was specifically sanctioned by leadership while the other side did not engage in war crimes. Collateral damage is guaranteed in war. I agree the country initiating an unjustified conflict is liable for said collateral damage, but shifting the status quo versus historical precedent in such situations may make it more difficult to reach peace, effectively putting more civilians at risk.

If both sides committed war crimes, it seems unreasonable for the other side to claim moral authority. In my opinion, there seems to be at least circumstantial evidence of Ukrainian solders committing war crimes based on published photos. If true, the next question would be if it was sanctioned by Ukrainian leadership. I am not going to try to win an argument here. It is important to realize that unfair play can lead to long term resentment where international agreements get undermined at every chance by the party that perceives injustice.

 

[UsualName]

Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is not justified no matter what false comparisons are made or frivolous assertions of broken “promises.”

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

EU say now that they are going to fast-track Ukraine's membership.

Wow, we are into uncharted territory on this one.

If Russia takes Ukraine that could be a complicating factor, eh?

 

[UsualName]

I’m pretty sure this is the first S-300 system sent to Ukraine and has been a major point of what would be considered escalatory.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512386024399376389

To update this: Patriot missile system now en route from US to Slovakia.

 

[Bugenhagen]

Try this: instead of suggesting to everybody how dumb I am, how about showing us how smart you are with specific points from your vast knowledge that discredit my points?

Please educate me(Us), I(We) beg you.

Give me a bit, tricky to find something that symbolises context you could put in your truck.

This is not bad, give the guy props for realising there is a gap in the market and making a specific context symbol.

 

[BeautifulStranger]

EU say now that they are going to fast-track Ukraine's membership.

Wow, we are into uncharted territory on this one.

If Russia takes Ukraine that could be a complicating factor, eh?

It seems reasonable to say NATO is now committed to the outcome of the Russian-Ukrainian war. If this is the case, any action of NATO’s that might be interpreted as “Backing down” becomes very hard. We may just have entered the “Must be a winner (And thus, a loser)” zone.