Russia & Ukraine

It's been said here that Econ Sanctions are the way only and proper to go.

Sanctioning the rogue nation that steals a whole country is not equivalent to preventing the theft via military intervention in the first place.

Really sad that this is not obvious to everyone.

Would you feel that way if it were your country being invaded? If not, then you are wrong and biased.
 
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Where is the evidence that he'd start a nuclear exchange, or should we just believe any world leader when they threaten us with nukes? How's that going to ultimately work out for us in the long term?


He has showed he is willing to go to war with The US with his invasions of Georgia,Crimea and especially Ukraine as any of these actions could lead to war with The US.Everyone,including Putin, knows Russia cant win a conventional war with The US.If he is willing to go to war with The US knowing he cant win a conventional war that leaves one logical conclusion.

If he is out of conventional options and The US is bombing the shit out of Moscow there is zero chance he wont start using nukes imo.
 
He has showed he is willing to go to war with The US with his invasions of Georgia,Crimea and especially Ukraine as any of these actions could lead to war with The US.Everyone,including Putin, knows Russia cant win a conventional war with The US.If he is willing to go to war with The US knowing he cant win a conventional war that leaves one logical conclusion.
Firstly: Has he gone to war with the US? No.

So have you considered the possibility that you are incorrect that he has shown he is willing to go to war with the US; in addition, knowing someone's true "will" is nearly impossible.

What we do know is that the US did not engage him. So perhaps he was/is simply an excellent judge of what the US will, and won't, do; and not necessarily someone willing to go to war with the US, as you suggest. He's reading us like a book at this poker table; but we don't care, and continue being soft and predictable.

IOW, he knew the US would punk out in those, and this case.
 
A lot people keep saying engage with Putin or call his bluff.If the US does that they don't seem to realize that Putin may not be bluffing and that The US has to be willing to go all the way the minute a Russian Troop dies at the hands of The US.

So appease ala Chamberlain until he gobbles the rest of the ex-Soviet bloc?
 
Firstly: Has he gone to war with the US? No.


Hitler didn't start with Russia or the US,but his actions led him to to showdowns with both.

Putins actions can easily lead him to a showdown with The US,there is no way he doesn't know that.If he is willing to take that path he is obviously willing to accept it.

You may be willing to play chicken with a mad man with 6 thousand nukes,but most of us aren't over The Ukraine.
 
Hitler didn't start with Russia or the US,but his actions led him to to showdowns with both.

Putins actions can easily lead him to a showdown with The US,there is no way he doesn't know that.If he is willing to take that path he is obviously willing to accept it.

You may be willing to play chicken with a mad man with 6 thousand nukes,but most of us aren't over The Ukraine.
Again:

So we just follow Putin's orders as long as he's in power; because he has nukes and some of us are scared he'll use them?

You have never addressed this question I've asked multiple times.
 
Washington now scratching its head over how to deescalate the Ukraine fiasco in a way that gives Putin 'an off ramp' because he sucks at invading.

Biden's dilemma: How to give Putin an off-ramp
https://www.axios.com/biden-dilemma-putin-ukraine-invasion-edd5f465-bf46-4f3c-85ce-95021d2d6741.html

With Ukraine holding Russia off longer than many U.S. officials had expected, President Biden now faces a great unanswered question — how to give Vladimir Putin an off-ramp to avoid even greater calamity.

Why it matters: A cornered, humiliated Putin could unleash untold pain on the world, from cyberattacks to nuclear threats. After enacting brutal sanctions, the White House now must consider how the invasion can end without a new catastrophe.

Between the lines: Nobody knows what Putin would accept.
  • Many officials fear that we are heading into a very dangerous period — the punishing Western sanctions pushing an autocrat into a corner.
Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), vice chair of the Senate intelligence committee, has hinted Putin could be addled.
  • "This is the most dangerous moment in 60 years," Rubio tweeted Sunday night. Putin, he said, "is facing a humiliating military fiasco & he has triggered extraordinary consequences on #Russia's economy & people that will not be easy to reverse ... And his only options to reset this imbalance are catastrophic ones."
A European diplomat told reporters at a briefing yesterday: "It's like the Sun Tzu thing of giving someone a golden bridge to retreat across. How do you get him to go in a different direction?"
  • "I think the door to diplomacy remains open," the diplomat continued. "Putin ... doesn't normally back down. But he also controls the information environment in his own country to such an extent that if he does, he can cover his tracks. ... So I think there is room for him to de-escalate — and that's certainly what we're pressing for."
The diplomat pointed to yesterday’s Russia-Ukraine peace talks in Belarus as the most viable off-ramp in a sea of bad options, noting that negotiations lasted for four hours and appear headed for a second round.
  • Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said before the talks that he was willing to discuss "neutral status" for Ukraine — one of Putin's three demands.
  • But the other two — demilitarization and "denazification" of Ukraine, and recognition of Russia's claim to Crimea — suggest Putin will never accept a deal in which Zelensky remains in power.
The bottom line: The West's response to Putin — for so long, uncertain and halting — has moved at astonishing speed and ferocity over the past week. How Putin will respond — and whether de-escalation is even possible — is keeping national-security leaders up at night.

This. Putin is probably in the worst political and military blunder since I don’t know when.

Militarily, it’s a disaster. Even if they persevere and take Ukraine that becomes a nightmare onto itself. The amount of resources and attention that will drain will overwhelm the Russian government and military.

Politically, the economic fallout and total isolation is North Korea level. How does he get back to the strength Russia has only a week ago.

His options are awful. Somebody probably needs to arrest or kill Putin for Russia to have a viable chance at a decent future.
 
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